18 Years and another First

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman

Jurassic,

You are correct, but there could be a situation when the ball hits the defenders head when it isn't "10 feet in the air" and count as 3. One of those long desperation "launches" that starts at the hip and then hits the defender who is right in front of the shooter. Yeah, I know..... unlikely as heck, but if you ref long enough....Z

Yup, I can certainly agree with that,Z, if it hit the defender while the ball was still on the way up. If the ball's on the way down and below 10 feet though, I think that you gotta say that the try ended.

[rwest]

Originally posted by zebraman
NFHS Rules:

As I understand Rule 4-40-4 (and case play 4.40.4 Situation B), this could be counted as 2 or 3, depending on the "type" of the touch by the defender.

If the referee feels that the shot ended when the ball hit the defender (like a shot that is on it's way down), then the ball that subsequently went through the basket would count as 2.

If the referee feels that the shot did not end (for instance, the defender was real close to the passer and the richochet merely redirected a ball that was still on it's way up), it would count as a 3.

The FED used to require officials to judge whether or not the original attempt was a pass or a try but they took that out a couple years ago (or so). However, it still looks to me as if we have to judge whether or not the try "ended" or was merely deflected.

Anyone else interpret this the same (or different)?

Z

I seem to recall from the case book a play where Team A was passing the ball around outside the 3 point arc and the ball was deflected by a team member into the basket. It was counted as a three. In this case it did not matter that it was not a try for goal. You count it as a 3. Again, I'm going from memory here. I know this situation is involving a defender, I just wanted to bring up the fact that a try, at least in this case, is not germain to the discussion.

I'm not sure about it touching a defender though. I believe the case play had multiple situations and one of them was touching a defender.

[Ref in PA]

Originally posted by rwest

I seem to recall from the case book a play where Team A was passing the ball around outside the 3 point arc and the ball was deflected by a team member into the basket. It was counted as a three. In this case it did not matter that it was not a try for goal. You count it as a 3. Again, I'm going from memory here. I know this situation is involving a defender, I just wanted to bring up the fact that a try, at least in this case, is not germain to the discussion.

I'm not sure about it touching a defender though. I believe the case play had multiple situations and one of them was touching a defender.

I don't seem to recall that play. Please find it and cite it.

A pass beyond the arc that goes into the basket without deflecting or touching is a 3. A pass that originates beyond the arc and touches a teammate who is also beyond the arc and deflects, tips or redirects the ball into the into the basket would also be a 3. If teammate is inside the arc, only 2 may be counted.

A pass/try that deflects off of a defender that originates beyond the arc can only be counted as a 3 if the ball was touched on the way up. The defender location does not matter at that point. If you think about it, the laws of physics will let you envision the play (not something out of a Flubber movie). As so elequently stated earlier, once a pass or try is below the rim and deflects off a defender into the basket, only 2 points may be scored.

[rwest]

Originally posted by Ref in PA

I don't seem to recall that play. Please find it and cite it.

A pass beyond the arc that goes into the basket without deflecting or touching is a 3. A pass that originates beyond the arc and touches a teammate who is also beyond the arc and deflects, tips or redirects the ball into the into the basket would also be a 3. If teammate is inside the arc, only 2 may be counted.

A pass/try that deflects off of a defender that originates beyond the arc can only be counted as a 3 if the ball was touched on the way up. The defender location does not matter at that point. If you think about it, the laws of physics will let you envision the play (not something out of a Flubber movie). As so elequently stated earlier, once a pass or try is below the rim and deflects off a defender into the basket, only 2 points may be scored.

We are in agreement. The case play I'm thinking of is just as you described. The pass was beyond the arc and the player who deflected it is also beyond the arc. The point I was making is that in this case, it does not have to be an actually try for goal to be counted as a 3. It can be a pass. I'll look for the case play tonight. I belive its in the 5.6.x range.

[NCAAREF]

Great discussion! Regarding the clock, it did stop after Team A's basket, and the head-made basket used up the remaining 4.5 secs so everything was by the rules there. I probably should have mentioned that this was being played under NCAA rules, but I always enjoy hearing the NFHS interps also. Our ruling was what most of you agree to, not a try...2 points. Can't wait to see what happens the rest of the season!

[Edited by NCAAREF on Dec 21st, 2004 at 11:17 AM]