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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 08:51am
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Question

Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 09:03am
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
What do you mean by not being allowed to "follow through"?

Fed or NCAA?
Not being allowed to land?
Not being allowed to complete arm/hand movement?
Where's the ball when the contact is made?
Where was the body contact?
Was there displacement?
How far was the displacement?
mick
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 09:54am
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Follow Through

The dropping of the wrist after ball is released from the hand. But the ball has left the hand. Dave
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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 09:56am
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Also displaced about a foot.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 10:11am
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So you are saying:
  • The ball was in the air and the shot wasn't affected.
  • The shooter was allowed to land.

    mick
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      #6 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 01:04pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
    If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

    Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.
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      #7 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 01:16pm
    MJT MJT is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
    If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

    Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.
    I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.
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      #8 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 02:16pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by MJT
    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
    If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

    Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.
    I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.
    That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

    If they displace the opponent it's a foul.
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      #9 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 02:36pm
    MJT MJT is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by MJT
    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
    If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

    Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.
    I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.
    That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

    If they displace the opponent it's a foul.
    You cannot call every little push! If you do, you will call 50 fouls per game. You must look at advantage/disadvantage. Just cuz there is a little contact, does not always mean a foul. The players need to be able to "play through" some things. We have some "incredible" teams and players in the NW corner of Iowa who play the game the way it should be, and if you go with "advantage/disadvantage" you will not have any problems.
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    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 03:03pm
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    Re: Follow Through

    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    The dropping of the wrist after ball is released from the hand. But the ball has left the hand. Dave
    I can't even picture this. It seems to me that an airborne shooter couldn't have his wrist interfered with by a defender who is blocking him out. Did B1 hit A1's wrist with his head? If his arm is sticking out beyond his torso, and his shot is over, I'm not seeing any advantage here.
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      #11 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 03:17pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by MJT
    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by MJT
    Quote:
    Originally posted by blindzebra
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Dave Dow
    Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
    If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

    Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.
    I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.
    That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

    If they displace the opponent it's a foul.
    You cannot call every little push! If you do, you will call 50 fouls per game. You must look at advantage/disadvantage. Just cuz there is a little contact, does not always mean a foul. The players need to be able to "play through" some things. We have some "incredible" teams and players in the NW corner of Iowa who play the game the way it should be, and if you go with "advantage/disadvantage" you will not have any problems.
    You COMPLETELY missed the point.

    If you call that displacement the FIRST time you won't NEED to call 50 fouls. You pass on it, the next push gets HARDER, players start looking to get pay back and you will end up HAVING to call fouls to reel the game back.

    I'm am aware of advantage/disadvantage and contact that players can play through to make a play, that does NOT apply to riding out an opponent on a box out, an opponent can't play through getting backed out, there only response is to PUSH BACK.

    It's rough play, it's a game changing type of play, and it needs to be called, EVERY time.
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      #12 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 04:06pm
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    Not allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

    It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

    In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.

    [Edited by Camron Rust on Dec 12th, 2004 at 11:07 PM]
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    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 04:58pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by Camron Rust
    Now allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

    It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

    In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.
    Exactly.

    Once the ball is released, what happens to the hand has absolutely no effect on the shot. The ball is gone.

    It's no different than a QB getting cream the split second AFTER the release. What happened behind the ball is of no consequence.

    As for the play, if the player is displaced, I have a foul.

    But I don't think my game will go down the tubes if I don't make that call.
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      #14 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 05:12pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by BktBallRef
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Camron Rust
    Now allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

    It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

    In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.
    Exactly.

    Once the ball is released, what happens to the hand has absolutely no effect on the shot. The ball is gone.

    It's no different than a QB getting cream the split second AFTER the release. What happened behind the ball is of no consequence.

    As for the play, if the player is displaced, I have a foul.

    But I don't think my game will go down the tubes if I don't make that call.
    I'm not talking about bumping a shooter, or a slight hit on a follow through.

    I'm talking about any player moving an opponent off a spot with a "box out", and passing on that kind of play, CAN cause your game to go down the tubes.

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      #15 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 06:02pm
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    I'll have to remember that.
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