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Dave Dow Sun Dec 12, 2004 08:51am

Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave

mick Sun Dec 12, 2004 09:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
What do you mean by not being allowed to "follow through"?

Fed or NCAA?
Not being allowed to land?
Not being allowed to complete arm/hand movement?
Where's the ball when the contact is made?
Where was the body contact?
Was there displacement?
How far was the displacement?
mick

Dave Dow Sun Dec 12, 2004 09:54am

Follow Through
 
The dropping of the wrist after ball is released from the hand. But the ball has left the hand. Dave

Dave Dow Sun Dec 12, 2004 09:56am

Also displaced about a foot.

mick Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:11am

So you are saying:
<LI>The ball was in the air and the shot wasn't affected.
<LI>The shooter was allowed to land.

mick

blindzebra Sun Dec 12, 2004 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.

MJT Sun Dec 12, 2004 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.

I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.

blindzebra Sun Dec 12, 2004 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MJT
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.

I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.

That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

If they displace the opponent it's a foul.

MJT Sun Dec 12, 2004 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by MJT
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.

I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.

That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

If they displace the opponent it's a foul.

You cannot call every little push! If you do, you will call 50 fouls per game. You must look at advantage/disadvantage. Just cuz there is a little contact, does not always mean a foul. The players need to be able to "play through" some things. We have some "incredible" teams and players in the NW corner of Iowa who play the game the way it should be, and if you go with "advantage/disadvantage" you will not have any problems.

Adam Sun Dec 12, 2004 03:03pm

Re: Follow Through
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
The dropping of the wrist after ball is released from the hand. But the ball has left the hand. Dave
I can't even picture this. It seems to me that an airborne shooter couldn't have his wrist interfered with by a defender who is blocking him out. Did B1 hit A1's wrist with his head? If his arm is sticking out beyond his torso, and his shot is over, I'm not seeing any advantage here.

blindzebra Sun Dec 12, 2004 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MJT
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by MJT
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Dow
Player A1 is shooting a three pointer is up in the air following through with the shot when B1 starts to box out for any rebound that there is. A1 cannot follow through because of B1 boxing out. Allow contact like this, or is it a foul after shot??? Help Dave
If the contact happened BEFORE A1 lands, it is a shooting foul, if the contact is AFTER A1 returns to the floor, it is a common foul.

Any "box out" that displaces the opponent is a foul.

I think you have to look at the displacement. Many times when there is some good contact, the offensive player will back out of the contact. Just make sure it is the contact which displaces him a decent amount, and the way the game is going depends on how much displacement will cause a foul.

That is how your game goes down the tubes. Displacement falls under rough play, and if you allow a little push, the next trip the other guy gets one, and the next time it's a little harder, and...

If they displace the opponent it's a foul.

You cannot call every little push! If you do, you will call 50 fouls per game. You must look at advantage/disadvantage. Just cuz there is a little contact, does not always mean a foul. The players need to be able to "play through" some things. We have some "incredible" teams and players in the NW corner of Iowa who play the game the way it should be, and if you go with "advantage/disadvantage" you will not have any problems.

You COMPLETELY missed the point.

If you call that displacement the FIRST time you won't NEED to call 50 fouls. You pass on it, the next push gets HARDER, players start looking to get pay back and you will end up HAVING to call fouls to reel the game back.

I'm am aware of advantage/disadvantage and contact that players can play through to make a play, that does NOT apply to riding out an opponent on a box out, an opponent can't play through getting backed out, there only response is to PUSH BACK.

It's rough play, it's a game changing type of play, and it needs to be called, EVERY time.

Camron Rust Sun Dec 12, 2004 04:06pm

Not allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Dec 12th, 2004 at 11:07 PM]

BktBallRef Sun Dec 12, 2004 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Now allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.

Exactly.

Once the ball is released, what happens to the hand has absolutely no effect on the shot. The ball is gone.

It's no different than a QB getting cream the split second AFTER the release. What happened behind the ball is of no consequence.

As for the play, if the player is displaced, I have a foul.

But I don't think my game will go down the tubes if I don't make that call. :)

blindzebra Sun Dec 12, 2004 05:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Now allowing the shooter to follow through has nothing to do with it. There is no advantage or disadvantage there. Once the ball is gone. The follow through in only a good indication of good form prior to the release.

It may or may not still be a foul but the reasons would be different.

In this case, the displacement is the foul...not the prevention of the followthrough.

Exactly.

Once the ball is released, what happens to the hand has absolutely no effect on the shot. The ball is gone.

It's no different than a QB getting cream the split second AFTER the release. What happened behind the ball is of no consequence.

As for the play, if the player is displaced, I have a foul.

But I don't think my game will go down the tubes if I don't make that call. :)

I'm not talking about bumping a shooter, or a slight hit on a follow through.

I'm talking about any player moving an opponent off a spot with a "box out", and passing on that kind of play, CAN cause your game to go down the tubes.;)


BktBallRef Sun Dec 12, 2004 06:02pm

I'll have to remember that.


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