One of those weird calls

[ChuckElias]

3 hour drive to VT today. Left at 10:30 for a 3pm game. Home at 8:20. All for that fat $180 check

Anyway, NCAA game this afternoon. I had the dreaded "shot-charge-count it-shoot 1-and-1 at the other end" play.

I was C and had a fantastic look at the whole play. Ball was clearly out of the shooter's hand and defender definitely had position. I know I called it right, I just hate to make that call. I just like the HS rule better. This was only the second time I've ever called this. Other time was a juco game.

Obviously, each coach wanted a moment of my time. I explained to the home coach (who got the basket). He just said, "We get the basket, they get 1-and-1? Ok, I'll take that." Visiting coach (his player took the charge) just asked if I was sure. He wasn't saying I blew it. I just think he couldn't believe that was the rule.

Also called three GT's against the visitors, all against the same kid. He had some hops.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Chuck:

I do not think that play is that weird or that unusual, but I agree with you, I like the NFHS and NCAA Women's rule. But I would not lose any sleep over the call. It sounds like you got it right.

I could write an article on why the NFHS (years ago) and NCAA Women's (more recently) adopted the airborne player rule. But while I did not have to drive anyway near as far as you did for my college game this afternoon, I was up before 6am so that I could watch our youngest son in a swim meet this morning before I left to my game. And we get to do it again tomorrow morning. It is a two day swim meet and both boys are swimming in it.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark Dexter]

Wow, Chuck. How did you make it all the way down to Blacksburg and back to Western Mass in such a short time?

I won't write a DeNucci article , but (as I'm sure you know) you got the call right. That said, I haven't seen it very often (read, never). I've had one or two "basket counts followed by a charge" fouls, but both before the bonus. What I seem to see called more often nowadays is a foul by the defense when the try is in flight - score it and give the ball back to A.

And, remember, Mr. 180-dollar game check - that's still $18/hour (which is a heck of a lot more than I make reffing).

[BOBBYMO]

Chuck-

Great call!! There are 2 things that I really like about this sittuation.

1- I am assuming the play was a drive down the lane? If so Its amazing how good of a look you can get from the C.

2- I like the fact that you took the time to explain this play to both coaches. Its scary how many referees are afraid to talk with coaches when needed

Keep up the great work!!! Don't those long road trips suck at times? I have two trips that are 6 1/2 hour drives and 2 others that are 5 hours coming up after the 1st of the year. I just hope that the weather is 1/2 way good

[Adam]

Originally posted by BOBBYMO
I just hope that the weather is 1/2 way good

I have to ask. Which half?

[tomegun]

I've already done a 6.5 hour trip (one way) for $30 less! It would have been brutal on the way home except I have a cousin in California that loves to talk. When I called her I knew the call would be at least an hour. It turned out to be almost a two hour call.

I don't mean to pick nits, but for anyone with a ? in their head or that hasn't officiated under these rules it should be called/reported as a push after the ball leaves the shooter's hands. This is a play that almost doesn't feel right and is often misunderstood by coaches, players and the crowd. Good job. It is always so much easier to explain what you have when you clearly see the entire play.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tomegun
it should be called/reported as a push after the ball leaves the shooter's hands.

Why exactly? The shooter didn't push the defender, he charged into him. The signal is the same, and if you're worried about confusing somebody, ok. But in reality, it's a charging foul, not a push.

I can pick nits with the best of 'em, Tommy

And BTW, I can't imagine driving 6.5 hours one way for a game. That's from Springfield, MA almost to Washington, D.C. Why would anybody assign you that far away (for so little money)? Why would you take it?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Why exactly? The shooter didn't push the defender, he charged into him. The signal is the same, and if you're worried about confusing somebody, ok. But in reality, it's a charging foul, not a push.

I can pick nits with the best of 'em, Tommy

And BTW, I can't imagine driving 6.5 hours one way for a game. That's from Springfield, MA almost to Washington, D.C. Why would anybody assign you that far away (for so little money)? Why would you take it?

You can get to D.C. from Springfield in 6 1/2 hours?? What route do you take, and can I drive with you next time?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Why exactly? The shooter didn't push the defender, he charged into him. The signal is the same, and if you're worried about confusing somebody, ok. But in reality, it's a charging foul, not a push.

I can pick nits with the best of 'em, Tommy

Why pick nits? Just use the rules:

NCAA RULE 4-8 CHARGING:
AR6(Men)- B1 is standing under the basket before A1 jumps for a layup. The forward motion of A1 causes contact with B1:
RULING: B1 is entitled to the position provided there was no movement to such position by B1 after A1 leaped from the floor. .........When the contact occurs before the ball has become dead, a charging foul has been committed by A1.

Pretty straightforward.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
You can get to D.C. from Springfield in 6 1/2 hours?? What route do you take, and can I drive with you next time?

It takes me 5 hours to get to Baltimore and maybe about an hour or hour-and-a-half more to get to D.C. I don't drive all that much over the speed limit either. The whole trip is less than 400 miles. At 70 mph. . .

To Baltimore, I'd take 95 all the way, which can run into bridge problems in NYC. But if you do it early in the morning, it's not too bad.

[tomegun]

Chuck, good point about the verbage/signal although I would report it as a push.
Jurassic, I read your reference in the rule book. I would still report it as a push. I guess that is just me and what I've seen and heard from others. The only reason I ever mentioned it (nit picking) is that it is different from Fed. and could be considered to be the same.

As far as my reason for taking the game, there are a few reasons. I want to do as many games at the highest level when possible and this a D2 conference. I have been to the two schools that are the furthest away from me already so it will hopefully be smooth sailing from here. Although I might complain, I'm a basketball junkie. I've already been asked if I'm going to stay in the conference next year and I didn't have an answer. It is my first year in the conference and I don't know about next right now. I have to work on my game for another conference I'm in and this conference does have some play above the rim play so it has already helped. I will just have to chalk this up as paying my dues for the next level. I just have to deal with the cards I have right now until my hand improves.

[Edited by tomegun on Dec 15th, 2004 at 11:20 AM]

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It takes me 5 hours to get to Baltimore and maybe about an hour or hour-and-a-half more to get to D.C. I don't drive all that much over the speed limit either. The whole trip is less than 400 miles. At 70 mph. . .

To Baltimore, I'd take 95 all the way, which can run into bridge problems in NYC. But if you do it early in the morning, it's not too bad.

You go 91 to 95? CT traffic doesn't kill you? Maybe my family just drives slowly.

[Edited by Mark Dexter on Dec 15th, 2004 at 11:12 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun

As far as my reason for taking the game, there are a few reasons. I want to do as many games at the highest level when possible and this a D2 conference. I have been to the two schools that are the furthest away from me already so it will hopefully be smooth sailing from here. Although I might complain, I'm a basketball junkie. I've already been asked if I'm going to stay in the conference next year and I didn't have an answer. It is my first year in the conference and I don't know about next right now. I have to work on my game for another conference I'm in and this conference does have some play above the rim play so it has already helped. I will just have to chalk this up as paying my dues for the next level. I just have to deal with the cards I have right now until my hand improves.

Sound reasoning imo. Most league supervisors will recognize the officials that are willing to go "above and beyond". And they also make good references for the supervisors at the next level up, if needed.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
You go 91 to 95? CT traffic doesn't kill you? Maybe my family just drives slowly.

I don't think anybody but us is interested in this conversation. I mean, it's not like we're talking about the Red Sox winning the World Series or anything.

I'll send an email with my trip itinerary.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It takes me 5 hours to get to Baltimore and maybe about an hour or hour-and-a-half more to get to D.C. I don't drive all that much over the speed limit either. The whole trip is less than 400 miles. At 70 mph. . .

To Baltimore, I'd take 95 all the way, which can run into bridge problems in NYC. But if you do it early in the morning, it's not too bad.

It also takes you 5 hrs to get from MA to Brooklyn...

But I remember last summer it took you longer to get past the 3rd innng than it did for you to drive from MA to the Bronx.

Jus' sayin'