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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:39pm
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Longtime official first time poster, please be gentle with me, but read on...
A2, airborne from his frontcourt to backcourt, receives the inbounds pass, throws the inbounds pass to teammate A3, who is in the backcourt. I know this is a violation because the exceptions listed do not apply when he throws the pass to the teammate.
My question- where is this play specifically addressed in the rule or casebook? I couldn't find it in this or last years but do recall seeing it in the past (and answering it correctly) on past exams in addition to this years exam. Is it in older books? Thanks.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 01:16am
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Quote:
Originally posted by jarecker1
Longtime official first time poster, please be gentle with me, but read on...
A2, airborne from his frontcourt to backcourt, receives the inbounds pass, throws the inbounds pass to teammate A3, who is in the backcourt. I know this is a violation because the exceptions listed do not apply when he throws the pass to the teammate.
My question- where is this play specifically addressed in the rule or casebook? I couldn't find it in this or last years but do recall seeing it in the past (and answering it correctly) on past exams in addition to this years exam. Is it in older books? Thanks.
I don't recall that exact play being in the case books. For a fee of $20.00, you can get MTD to go up in his attic and look. For $100.00, you can get MTD to personally talk to James Naismith through a pyschic. How much is it worth to you?

Z
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 06:17am
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I do not believe that this play is covered specifically or separately in the books. It is simply covered by the general backcourt rule. If none of the exceptions apply (because they only apply to the airborne player himself), it is a backcourt violation.
I'm sure that makes sense to you, and you also know that you are right because the answer key to the test this year tells you so.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 07:29am
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Quote:
Originally posted by jarecker1
Longtime official first time poster, please be gentle with me, but read on...
A2, airborne from his frontcourt to backcourt, receives the inbounds pass, throws the inbounds pass to teammate A3, who is in the backcourt. I know this is a violation because the exceptions listed do not apply when he throws the pass to the teammate.
My question- where is this play specifically addressed in the rule or casebook? I couldn't find it in this or last years but do recall seeing it in the past (and answering it correctly) on past exams in addition to this years exam. Is it in older books? Thanks.
It is implied in 2003-2004 comic book. 9-9-3 p64: "...provision ...only to the player who secures control while airborne.
mick
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Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 10:18am
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The NCAA reference is 9-12-7.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 07:46pm
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look in the 2002-2003 book: Rule 9 - there is a note after the exceptions which says: "the exceptions allow a player to make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in frontcourt or backcourt. Only the player gaining possession is covered by the exceptions."
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Old Fri Dec 10, 2004, 12:20am
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If I remember correctly, this exact question was on the part 1 test. #97 or 99 I think.

Mregor
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 10:19am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by jarecker1
Longtime official first time poster, please be gentle with me, but read on...
A2, airborne from his frontcourt to backcourt, receives the inbounds pass, throws the inbounds pass to teammate A3, who is in the backcourt. I know this is a violation because the exceptions listed do not apply when he throws the pass to the teammate.
My question- where is this play specifically addressed in the rule or casebook? I couldn't find it in this or last years but do recall seeing it in the past (and answering it correctly) on past exams in addition to this years exam. Is it in older books? Thanks.
It is implied in 2003-2004 comic book. 9-9-3 p64: "...provision ...only to the player who secures control while airborne.
mick
I've tried to research it but I don't get it. In the original situation, A2 receives the inbound pass implying that A1 is effecting the throw-in. As there is no team or player control during a throw-in (Fund 2), I don't understand why the subsequent pass to A3 is a violation. Even if A2 intercepts the throw-in pass, I don't understand the violation. Probably because I can't find the exceptions referred to above ("....because the exceptions listed...."). I also can't find the Rule reference/basis for the 2004-2005 Simplified/Illustrated comment in 9-9-3: ".... provision is provided only to the defensive team and only to the player who secures control while airborne." Other than feeling like an abject rules dude failure, I'm having a good day.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 11:57am
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FIRST:
In this play, you will not take into consideration that A2 is airborne because he did not LAND with the ball in his posession. Therefore, the airborne status doesn't matter.
Rule 9-9-3 clearly addresses that the player secures control and lands on the floor (either frontcourt or backcourt or straddling) and that is legal.

SECOND:
That being said, now you have to determine the status of A2 since he possessed the ball and had control of it (different than if he had tapped it or deflected it on a throw-in). At the instant A2 catches the ball, Team A now has control and the throw-in is complete. He has frontcourt status because he is airborne from the frontcourt. He then passes the ball to A3 in the backcourt. Simply, the ball had frontcourt status, was passed to a team mate in the backcourt (first to touch it in the backcourt by same team that had control in the frontcourt). This is why it is a violattion. Obviously, if A2 had been airborne from the backcourt when he caught the ball, there would be no backcourt violation.

In short, Article 3 does not apply to this play.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 12:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by missinglink
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by jarecker1
Longtime official first time poster, please be gentle with me, but read on...
A2, airborne from his frontcourt to backcourt, receives the inbounds pass, throws the inbounds pass to teammate A3, who is in the backcourt. I know this is a violation because the exceptions listed do not apply when he throws the pass to the teammate.
My question- where is this play specifically addressed in the rule or casebook? I couldn't find it in this or last years but do recall seeing it in the past (and answering it correctly) on past exams in addition to this years exam. Is it in older books? Thanks.
It is implied in 2003-2004 comic book. 9-9-3 p64: "...provision ...only to the player who secures control while airborne.
mick
I've tried to research it but I don't get it. In the original situation, A2 receives the inbound pass implying that A1 is effecting the throw-in. As there is no team or player control during a throw-in (Fund 2), I don't understand why the subsequent pass to A3 is a violation. Even if A2 intercepts the throw-in pass, I don't understand the violation. Probably because I can't find the exceptions referred to above ("....because the exceptions listed...."). I also can't find the Rule reference/basis for the 2004-2005 Simplified/Illustrated comment in 9-9-3: ".... provision is provided only to the defensive team and only to the player who secures control while airborne." Other than feeling like an abject rules dude failure, I'm having a good day.
NFHS rule 9-9-3 IS the rules reference.
- It states that the exception ONLY applies to the player who got control of the throw-in while jumping in the air from front court to back court.
- A2 established player and team control when he caught the throw-in pass. At that time, A2 also had front court status, because he was in the air jumping from front to back court.
- Normally, by rule, if A2 now landed in the back court, it would be a back court violation. However, the exception allows A2, but only A2, to legally land in the back court.
- If A2 passed to another A player who was in the back court, or also in the air from front court to back court, the exception no longer applies. Therefore you have a pass from A2 who had front court status to another A player who was in the back court. That's a back court violation under R9-9-1.

Don't over think this play. It's just a specific exception to a standard rule. Just remember that the exception only applies to the player catching the pass or stealing the ball, and you'll never have a problem.

The NCAA rule has basically the same exception but uses a different concept of when team control is established.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 12:51pm
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NFHS

Article 3 is not an exception. It is just a rule, cut and dry. The correct reference in this play is Article 1. A3 was the first to touch the ball in the backcourt after his team had control in the frontcourt. (A2 controlled it when he caught the in-bounds pass)

Since A2 did not land with the ball (he passed it off) Article 3 is not applied.

I know the concept and the rule, but I was trying to help Missinglink understand why A2 is not "protected" from violating based on Article 3
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 07:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by nine01c
NFHS

Article 3 is not an exception. It is just a rule, cut and dry. The correct reference in this play is Article 1. A3 was the first to touch the ball in the backcourt after his team had control in the frontcourt. (A2 controlled it when he caught the in-bounds pass)

Since A2 did not land with the ball (he passed it off) Article 3 is not applied.

I know the concept and the rule, but I was trying to help Missinglink understand why A2 is not "protected" from violating based on Article 3
Got it, thanks to both JR and Nine01C
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