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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 23, 2004, 10:36pm
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End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 23, 2004, 10:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
...Thus, it is not against the rules.
mick
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 23, 2004, 11:04pm
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It may be against NHSF rules, but it is not against NFHS rules.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 23, 2004, 11:43pm
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The rule book specifically differentiates throwing the ball off your own backboard versus throwing it off the opponent's. Your partner was wrong. It would not be a double or illegal dribble.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 24, 2004, 11:43am
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Just curious, did you charge B1 with an intentional foul? From your description it seems to fit the definition.....
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Old Wed Nov 24, 2004, 11:55pm
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It wasn't intentional

The defender went up strong after the shot. There was no intentional foul to call. My observation to bounce it off of the backboard would have been to disrupt the defensive timing and make a slam possible.
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Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 01:58am
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Re: It wasn't intentional

Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
The defender went up strong after the shot. There was no intentional foul to call. My observation to bounce it off of the backboard would have been to disrupt the defensive timing and make a slam possible.
Damian,

It doesn't have to be "intentional" to be intentional. Excessive contact can be an intentional foul even if B1 meant no harm and got a lot of ball. That's what Tim meant.

Z
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Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 02:30am
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
The defender went up strong after the shot. There was no intentional foul to call. My observation to bounce it off of the backboard would have been to disrupt the defensive timing and make a slam possible.
Damian,

It doesn't have to be "intentional" to be intentional. Excessive contact can be an intentional foul even if B1 meant no harm and got a lot of ball. That's what Tim meant.

Z
That coupled with your original description
Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in.
.... sounded to me like the classical definition of an intentional foul.

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 09:00am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play.
Reading too much into it, guys. Shooters are fouled all the time to keep them from hitting the shot. Do you call an intentional every time?
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Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 10:30am
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Re: Re: It wasn't intentional

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
It doesn't have to be "intentional" to be intentional.
Don't you mean: It doesn't have to be intentional to be "intentional"?

Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy strikes again!!!
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Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 11:48am
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Re: Re: Re: It wasn't intentional

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
It doesn't have to be "intentional" to be intentional.
Don't you mean: It doesn't have to be intentional to be "intentional"?

Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy strikes again!!!
How about just Mr. Annoying?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 03:26pm
cingram
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
Just a quick point:
A1 throws the ball up against the backboard, B1 fouls A1 - Common foul not shooting foul, ball is dead, A1 dunks the ball - Could be a T on A1.

I fail to see how this could be an advantage...
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Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 03:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by cingram
Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
Just a quick point:
A1 throws the ball up against the backboard, B1 fouls A1 - Common foul not shooting foul, ball is dead, A1 dunks the ball - Could be a T on A1.

I fail to see how this could be an advantage...
If A1 threw it off his own backboard and was fouled while doing so, why would you call a "common" foul and not a shooting foul? Rules reference please.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 04:38pm
cingram
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by cingram
Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
Just a quick point:
A1 throws the ball up against the backboard, B1 fouls A1 - Common foul not shooting foul, ball is dead, A1 dunks the ball - Could be a T on A1.

I fail to see how this could be an advantage...
If A1 threw it off his own backboard and was fouled while doing so, why would you call a "common" foul and not a shooting foul? Rules reference please.
Rule 4 Section 40 Article 1 - The Act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter.

Most players will throw the ball up, then jump to dunk. As soon as they've released the ball and they are on the floor they are no longer a shooter and the foul is a common foul.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 25, 2004, 05:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by cingram
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by cingram
Quote:
Originally posted by Damian
End lf game, break away for big guy for slam dunk. One person to beat who is not going to let him do it.

A1 is going in for a fast break, B1 fouls to keep A1 from slamming it in. Regular play. On the way out of the gym I commented that A1 should have bounced it off of his own backboard and slammed it in. My Co said it would have been illegal (double dribble). He sighted the rule of passing off of an opponent's backboard and the same should apply if he was not attempting a shot.

We both looked in the rule book (NHSF), but could not find a case or rule to cover this.
Just a quick point:
A1 throws the ball up against the backboard, B1 fouls A1 - Common foul not shooting foul, ball is dead, A1 dunks the ball - Could be a T on A1.

I fail to see how this could be an advantage...
If A1 threw it off his own backboard and was fouled while doing so, why would you call a "common" foul and not a shooting foul? Rules reference please.
Rule 4 Section 40 Article 1 - The Act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter.

Most players will throw the ball up, then jump to dunk. As soon as they've released the ball and they are on the floor they are no longer a shooter and the foul is a common foul.
Where does the play say that A1 was on the floor when fouled or that the foul occurred prior to the ball being released?
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