How much is too much from a coach?

[Brian Watson]

I guess I need to clarify myself.

I NEVER pass on Admin, or other items that are auto T's. In fact last night I had a girl reach through and bat away an ball during the inbound, but that is another story.

And, I will hit a coach when he is overly demonstrative and acting the fool. I just hate to do it, seems to be a huge waste of time and it punishes the players, not him/her. It is the chirping I let go, and I know I let it go too far.

Having said that, I did whack a coach last night in my second and last MS game of the year.

Actually I couldn't believe I did it, but I think the guy was just not going to stop.

He had been working us all game, all 6 minutes of it so far. I was trail over by the bench side. Scrum in the corner, ball goes OOB, other team gets the ball. He is up that was terrible, you need to carry your partner, etc. Gave him the hand and told him it was enough. Next play, his girl steals the ball and travels. He is in my ear again, this time it is about how I am not calling anything and I should learn how to use my whistle. Whack. I won't take that at the Varsity level, I am not going to take it from some has-been jock who thinks this is the NBA.


I admin the tosses and go to take the ball out and he is still stalking the sideline. I motion to my partner and and ask him if he is going to sit him down. He walks over and a long conversation takes place. We get in at the half and I ask what went on, apparently he didn't think it was right that we were going to make him sit, because we were already "taking the game" from his kids. Classic.

Then I pulled a Dave. 3rd q his girl reaches over the base line and slaps the ball. I call the T and go over to the table. This coach and his asst are telling my partner the ball was over the line and their girl did nothing wrong. My partner came in strong and backed me up. He told them I called it so it must not have been over. The ASSt. tells him, "how could you tell that you were back here?"

Having heard enough, I looked at him as I walked back by "Well if he couldn't see it back here, and you were sitting 5 feet away from him how could you see it?" Logic triumphs again.

Didn't hear a peep the rest of the game.

[RookieDude]

I guess I'm reading the Rule book wrong...I thought Two Technical fouls and a player is ejected. I didn't think it mattered what kind of technicals they were. i.e. Dunking the ball before the game, slapping the ball behind the plane, etc.
Also, Rainmaker...veteren officials tell me not to have "Rabbit ears"...ignore chips...untill they "act like a jerk".

[refjef40]

Rainmaker,in my humble opinion that is a to each his own and depending on how the coach has been acting.You might say coach I make my own calls or you might ignore it if it is the only thing the coach has said.If the coach has been on you all night then you might give a"T".Sometimes a well placed ice stare is a great response for this kind of comment sometimes that stare says how dare you qustion my integrity.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by RookieDude
I guess I'm reading the Rule book wrong...I thought Two Technical fouls and a player is ejected.

That's true -- what led you to believe it wasn't?

[OPTIPLEX2001]

...not neccesarily true. If a player has 4 personal fouls, and a technical foul is called, the player has to sit, because that totals 5 fouls in all. However, I thought that the coach was allowed 3 technicals?

Matthew

[DanIvey]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Yes, a plane violation after a warning is team technical. But if B1 touches the ball while the thrower A1 is still holding the ball, it's technical foul on B1 and a team warning, if a warning hasn't already been issued.

But a player shouldn't be ejected for breaking the plane.

I belive RookieDude was refering to the above quote "a player shouldn't be ejected for breaking the plane"...I believe he is on the same page with me...if that player has already received a technical foul, earlier in the game, and the "team" has already been warned not to break the throw-in plane, then a player who chooses to ignore the warning and break the plane again receives a technical foul. Afterall, it was an individual player who broke the plane, not the whole "team". I believe the "team" warning implies a warning to all "team" members not to do it again. Thus, Hawks Coach's player got ejected for breaking the plane after the whole "team" was warned.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by OPTIPLEX2001
However, I thought that the coach was allowed 3 technicals?

Matthew

A coach is allowed a total of three technicals and then he is ejected on the third, sort of. Head (and, in some cases, assistant) coaches receive direct and indirect technicals. If they get two direct, they are gone. If they get any combination that totals three, they are gone. Direct technicals also count as team fouls, but indirects don't because they are adjunct to a direct already being given to someone.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by DanIvey

I belive RookieDude was refering to the above quote "a player shouldn't be ejected for breaking the plane"...I believe he is on the same page with me...if that player has already received a technical foul, earlier in the game, and the "team" has already been warned not to break the throw-in plane, then a player who chooses to ignore the warning and break the plane again receives a technical foul. Afterall, it was an individual player who broke the plane, not the whole "team". I believe the "team" warning implies a warning to all "team" members not to do it again. Thus, Hawks Coach's player got ejected for breaking the plane after the whole "team" was warned.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the statement that a player who commits his team's second (and subsequent) plane violation (just for breaking the plane, not slapping the ball) receives the technical as a player technical? The rule, of course, is that he does not. It is a team technical. If a player breaks the plane and hits the ball before the release toward the court, it is a player technical even if no previous warning had been issued to anyone (including that player) on his team.

[Hawks Coach]

Mark P is right, as usual. It was something that passed right by me. 10-1 has all team technicals, 10-3 has player technicals. Although a player clearly commits the violation leading to the penalty in both cases, one is a team technical and the other charged to the player.

10-1-10 Following the team warning for delay in 9-2-11, commit a violation of the throw-in boundary-line plane. Team technical

10-3-12 Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball. Player technical.

[Mark Dexter]

First, sorry that I didn't clarify that 10-1 was team
techincal fouls.

Second, to Brian Watson:
>>Having heard enough, I looked at him as I walked back by "Well if he couldn't see it back here, and you were sitting 5 feet away from him how could you see it?" Logic triumphs again.<<

Just be careful. With some coaches, logic backfires, and you end up with a big mess to clean up. Just put the tarp down first.

[Brian Watson]

There was not a tarp big enough for this guy. I can say with out a doubt, if he cached my kid I would have pulled my kid from the floor.

He yelled louder at those girls than I ever remember my dad yelling at me (And I did some silly stuff as a kid). I just don't see any reason to treat kids like that.

I should have given them the night off from being yelled at given him the big boot.

[DanIvey]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the statement that a player who commits his team's second (and subsequent) plane violation (just for breaking the plane, not slapping the ball) receives the technical as a player technical? The rule, of course, is that he does not. It is a team technical. If a player breaks the plane and hits the ball before the release toward the court, it is a player technical even if no previous warning had been issued to anyone (including that player) on his team.

Hmmmmmm, so a player can commit a "team technical" and not be held personally accountable? Ok...next questions...does the "team technical" count toward the bonus? I say yes. Does the coach receive an indirect technical for the team technical? I say no. Do direct technical fouls on the coach count toward the bonus? I say yes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by DanIvey
Hmmmmmm, so a player can commit a "team technical" and not be held personally accountable? Ok...next questions...does the "team technical" count toward the bonus? I say yes. Does the coach receive an indirect technical for the team technical? I say no. Do direct technical fouls on the coach count toward the bonus? I say yes.

You are correct on all those questions.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
There was not a tarp big enough for this guy. I can say with out a doubt, if he cached my kid I would have pulled my kid from the floor.

He yelled louder at those girls than I ever remember my dad yelling at me (And I did some silly stuff as a kid). I just don't see any reason to treat kids like that.

I should have given them the night off from being yelled at given him the big boot.

Brian -- We did threaten to pull our daughter from a team one year when the coach was abusive, and routinely got T's in games. Fortunately for everyone, our daughter was far and away the best player on the team, so the threat was not an idle one. It was kind of pathetic to hear the coach's daughter saying (over and over and over), "Dad, don't say that! Dad, quiet down. Dad, go away!) Needless to say, he isn't coaching anymore.

Another question: It says in the book that we can give coaches T's for abuse of their own players. Has anyone ever done that? I bet it wasn't a big hit!! Any interesting stories here?

[Brian Watson]

Unless he used severe imporper language or physically assulted one of his players, I would probably not pull that one out of the bag.