Raptora / Twolves

[JugglingReferee]

Did anyone see the Raptors/Twolves game?

What opinion do you have about the 3-pointer at the end getting off in time?

In the NBA, when does the game end? When the clock shows 00.0 or when the buzzer goes or when the red light comes on?

I think the Raptors got hossed by the officials and David Stern in the game against the Lakers a few weeks ago. The stop stopping DID have an effect on the game. That timer should be fired.

Thoughts?

..Mike

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Did anyone see the Raptors/Twolves game?

What opinion do you have about the 3-pointer at the end getting off in time?

In the NBA, when does the game end? When the clock shows 00.0 or when the buzzer goes or when the red light comes on?

I believe all three things should occur simultaneously. I didn't see the play but I can't imagine them not counting the basket if it should have been good.

I think the Raptors got hossed by the officials and David Stern in the game against the Lakers a few weeks ago. The stop stopping DID have an effect on the game. That timer should be fired.

Thoughts?

In the Laker game, the correct procedure was used. Nobody got hosed or hossed. The precision timing mechanism is supposed to stop the clock, not the timer. The clock should have stopped when the foul was blown and then the continuation of the play would have allowed the basket to count. There is no lag time in the NBA for stopping the clock.

Nope, I'm afraid they got that one right. You can argue with NBA officials on judgment if you like, but they know their sh*t when it comes to the rules. They aren't allowed to make mistakes.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I believe all three things should occur simultaneously. I didn't see the play but I can't imagine them not counting the basket if it should have been good.

In the Laker game, the correct procedure was used. Nobody got hosed or hossed. The precision timing mechanism is supposed to stop the clock, not the timer. The clock should have stopped when the foul was blown and then the continuation of the play would have allowed the basket to count. There is no lag time in the NBA for stopping the clock.

Nope, I'm afraid they got that one right. You can argue with NBA officials on judgment if you like, but they know their sh*t when it comes to the rules. They aren't allowed to make mistakes.

In the sitch I'm talking about, Shaq's shot at the end of the game, the clock was counting down... 4...3...2...1...0

But at around 1.1, the clock stopped. Then it started again. Was there a whistle? If so, what for? Why did it start again?????????????????????? Why did it start again???????????????????? Sure, all 3 SHOULD occur at the same time, but IF they DON'T, what happens?

..Mike

[BktBallRef]

Shaq went up for a shot. He was fouled. The clock should have stopped. Perhaps it did for a split second or maybe it didn't, I don't know. But the horn then sounded before the shot was released. That's where the confusion came in. The Raptors thought time had expired prior to Shaq releasing the shot. By rule, the clock should have stopped and the shot, then released, would count.

I can't imagine the horn, light, and clock being out of sync. I guess there's a remote possibility but I can't imagine it happening. I would venture that the horn is the official end of the game but all three should be in sync.

[ilya]

Murray's shot was late
i saw it in slow motion, and the ball was still in his hands w/ 00.0 on the clock

btw, what lakers-raptors game? are you taking about vancouver-lakers when the grizlies lost because of that confusing w/ the clock? and when they complained to stern but he said the call was good?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Shaq went up for a shot. He was fouled. The clock should have stopped. Perhaps it did for a split second or maybe it didn't, I don't know. But the horn then sounded before the shot was released. That's where the confusion came in. The Raptors thought time had expired prior to Shaq releasing the shot. By rule, the clock should have stopped and the shot, then released, would count.

I can't imagine the horn, light, and clock being out of sync. I guess there's a remote possibility but I can't imagine it happening. I would venture that the horn is the official end of the game but all three should be in sync.

I have no problem with Shaq being fouled. Fouls happen.

However, was Shaq fouled when the clock stopped for this instant? Or, IOW, was the clock stopping the result of Shaq being fouled?

YES = the Grizzlies were hosed because the clock should have stopped at about 1.1 left (was *clearly* before time expired and I remember someone saying there is no lag time in the NBA). Then, the Grizzlies could have had a chance to tie or win the game, with time on the clock.

NO = Shaq might not have got the shot off before time expired OR the Grizzlies would have had the extra time to make a play. (After calling a timeout on a rebound or after the basket. & Does the clock not stop after a basket in the NBA with under a certain amount of time left?) Regardless, there are what-ifs that Vancouver had a legitimate aruguement about, that the players DID NOT determine the outcome of the game, but rather the game was influenced by a timing error. By golly, I should hope that in the NBA, who goes all-out at using quality officials and state-of-the-art timing devices, that a timing error is a correctable error.


was Shaq fouled before the clock stopped?

YES = timing error. Stopped too late. Grizzlies should get more time on the clock.

NO = timing error. It had no reason to stop whatsoever. Shaq's actions might have been different.


Was Shaq fouled after the clock was stopped?

YES = timing error. Stopped too early. Grizzlies should get more time on the clock.

NO = timing error. It had no reason to stop whatsoever. Shaq's actions might have been different.


The way I see it, there was a timing error. Grizzlies got hosed.

..Mike

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Feb 4th, 2001 at 05:22 PM]

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ilya
Murray's shot was late
i saw it in slow motion, and the ball was still in his hands w/ 00.0 on the clock

btw, what lakers-raptors game? are you taking about vancouver-lakers when the grizlies lost because of that confusing w/ the clock? and when they complained to stern but he said the call was good?

Yes, I think you are correct. Grizzlies, not Raptors.

Regarding the Raptors, Agreed, Murray's shot was late.

..Mike

[BktBallRef]

Your post is the first of heard or read about the clock stopping inappropriately on this play. Unless you really have the true facts, how can you assume the NBA made a mistake?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Your post is the first of heard or read about the clock stopping inappropriately on this play. Unless you really have the true facts, how can you assume the NBA made a mistake?

True facts are I saw the clip. Then I heard CTVSportsNet reporting that David Stern did not agree with Vancouver's protest.

The mistake is that Vancouver wasn't given a fair shake at winning the game. Maybe they weren't too concerned with 5-3.

..Mike

[BktBallRef]

Okay Mike, I went back and looked up some posts on the McGriff discussion about this play.

The clock did not stop and restart as you suggest. There was no timing error. Shaq was fouled with .4 seconds left on the clock, not 1.1 seconds. The foul prevented him from releasing the shot before the buzzer sounded. However, since the foul occurred prior to time expiring, the shot should have counted and the clock should have stopped immediately. Obviously, there is lag time between the time the foul occurs and when the official blows the whistle.

This is what the officials did. Since the foul occurred prior to the horn sounded, they ruled that the foul occurred with .4 seconds remaining on the clock. The basket counts. Put .4 seconds back on the clock. The reply showed that the officials were correct with regards to the clock and the timing of the foul. Shaq to the line for one FT. He missed the FT and time ran out when the ball was rebounded.

The situation was handled according to NBA rules. There was no mistake in the way the play was handled. Tough luck for the Grizzlies but that's what happens sometimes.

Hope that helps!