Please give me the rule reference--I have always thought that if you caused the basket (ring/backboard/support) to move while the ball was in the cylinder, that's BI.

If I'm wrong--I need to be corrected (& learn something!)

It just doesn't seem right that a player can slap the backboard in an attempt to block a shot (causing the basket/support to rock) while the ball is in the cylinder, and have that not be BI. I'm sure I have seen it called that way many times.

[/B][/QUOTE]

A few yrs ago the ncaa made a change to the BI rule to account for when a player grabs a moveable ring and the ring strikes the ball on a shot before the ring returns to its "original position" (famous Bob Knight-Ted Valentine broo-ha-ha ensued). The nfhs added that last year, rule 4-6-4. This is the ony time BI can apply when the ball's not in the cylinder. BI *never* applies when the violation is making the ring/backboard/supports vibrate.


JR, as far as I'm concerned the ring can "return to its original position" (locked & no longer moving up or down) and still "vibrate". Once it relocks BI is off the table and we're left at most with a T for vibrating the ring during a shot. IMO.

You have something that will make me change my mind?

[Edited by Dan_ref on Nov 9th, 2004 at 12:59 PM]

if you call the "t" for making the ring vibrate....then you just called a "t" on the kid for grabbing the rim to protect him/her self...and then letting go and the rim was still shaking when the shot was taken!!!! So the book says it's legal to grasp the rim, to avoid injury, so when you let it go, it's going to shake a little...so if you determine the grasp to be a legal one, you can't call a "t" when they let it go and a shot is taken as long as it gets put back in it's upright location before contacted by the ball.... IMHO!

Yabut.....

What if the ring is re-locked but still shaking from the grasp when the shot hits it and then (a)either goes in or (b) doesn't go in? What's the call in either case? That was part of the original question?

This is why (IMHO) it should be called BI if the shaking ring causes the ball to come out--it's a judgement call--likely not going to be popular with the offender's team/fans, but I don't think any player should be allowed to disrupt the basket/support, causing a ball to not go in, and be allowed to get away with it.

opinions are varied, that is why we have nfhs rules, and from what i have to go by, i couldn't call anything LEGALLY... now i know you would want too, i can say i've done it too, just because it looked bad, but that wasn't right for me to do either..

Am I missing something here? I have a foul on A1, no shot, no basket in either case. B's ball on the baseline.

Change the situation to B2 getting under B1 however and this discussion seems very applicable.

Sigh...I took the time to give you a brief history of the rule and a rule reference...yet you ignored me.

I feel so...so...unnoticed...

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/98....depressed.jpg

No contact by A1- B1 avoided the contact by hanging on the rim. Can't call a personal foul on A1 with no contact. Works with B2 being under there too.

Hey, the coach is new, but he's still smart enough to consider the source. :D

PS- Yoo-hoo, Coach. Listen to Dan. He wouldn't lie to you about no BI ever for just slapping a back board and making the ring vibrate.

Sorry!!!

Didn't mean to ignore(disrespect) anyone. I appreciate the reference--and I freely admit that, by rule, this is a no-call if the ring has re-locked in its normal position. However, in a game--I'd have to see it to be sure--I'm probably going to blow the whistle and count the basket if I think the ball was caused to come out by the shaking of the ring/basket caused by the player hanging on the rim.

No way I'm calling a T on the kid for hanging on the rim to protect himself--but no way I'm going to let him gain an advantage (the ball coming out) just because he happened to be hanging on the rim at a time when he was seeking personal protection. I admit that I can't justify my call by a rule in the rule book, but as a lifelong player/coach/official/fan and absolute lover of the game, this is a call I can sleep soundly with.

No disrespect intended.

Thanks.

:)

No disrespect taken, I'm just playing with you.

But there's no way you can justify a call that is counter to the rules (such as awarding 2 points for shaking the ring) just becuase you thought it was the right thing to do. If you're working a league where this type of play might happen you are asking for big trouble by doing so.

Hey, come to think of it, this might make one of those great FED test questions:

Question #101- <i>" A defender hangs on the ring to avoid injury. A1 shoots, and his shot then hits the ring while it is still moving from the defender grasping the ring, but after the defender has released the ring. After hitting the still moving ring, the ball then goes in. The try counts.

True or false?</i>

needs to be more clear... "the ring still moving could mean moving up and down returning to it's original position or not" needs to say the ring has returned to it's position but is still shaking.... :)

Ah, time to finish this one off. It's been fun.

Nope, by rule you can have BI up until the time that the ring stops moving. Ergo, the proper call in this sitch is:
1) No "T" for B1 legally hanging on the rim to prevent injury.
2) In the case where the shot hits the still-moving ring and goes in--- whistle as soon as the shot touches the moving ring because BI is called on B1 as soon as the ball hits the moving ring...no try even though the shot went in because the ball is dead as soon as the whistle for the BI was blown... award 2 points to A2 for the BI...team B gets the ball OOB for a throw-in and can run the end line.
3) In there case where the shot hits the still-moving ring and falls off...whistle as soon as ball hits the moving ring and call BI on B1. Award 2 points to A2. Team B gets the ball OOB for a throw-in, and can run the end line.

If anybody disagrees, I'll tell you where to find the ruling.