Inbound pass

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

It's legal if it's a "basketball" play, such as the one that you described in your first post. That play was used to gain an advantage that is legal by rule,and it isn't an unsporting act. If an official thought that the act of deliberately throwing the ball at an opponent was unsporting and was done to taunt or maybe hurt an opponent , then a "T" certainly could be called- even a flagrant "T". Iow, it's a judgement call on the official's part. Casebook play 10.3.7SitB gives you a little guidance.

JR,
Nice.
A coach could understand that.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
3) Legal it is.

The Yoda Doctrine.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
[/B]

A coach could understand that.


[/B][/QUOTE]Grin.

Whatinthehell happened to MTU yesterday. Get 50,000 plus at the Big House and then they got whupped by 17? Does that mean bye-bye to a play-off game in Houghton?

Doesn't their basketball team play MU today too in a pre-season game?

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

A coach could understand that.


[/B]

Grin.

Whatinthehell happened to MTU yesterday. Get 50,000 plus at the Big House and then they got whupped by 17? Does that mean bye-bye to a play-off game in Houghton?

Doesn't their basketball team play MU today too in a pre-season game? [/B][/QUOTE]

JR,
Football being what it is, Tech had 1st quarter, game ending injuries to Tailback, Quarterback and Defensive lineman, all of whom were being scouted by pros. With their first loss of the season, Tech football is still in the playoffs, but it may be a short road depending on those injuries. (Tech football program was scrapped two years ago, but donations kept it afloat. Primarily an engineering school, Tech football, it seems, has a 100% graduation rate.)

Yes, DII Tech Men will skirmish Wolverines today.

Thanks for keeping an eye on Michigan Tech sports!
mick

[kslcol]

How would it apply in this case? A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert not having a 5 second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official calls this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

[mick]

Originally posted by kslcol
How would it apply in this case? A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert not having a 5 second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official calls this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

And what is B1 doing?

Looking at cheerleaders

Taking a nap

Facing another direction

Tieing his shoe

Lying on the floor


mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by kslcol
How would it apply in this case? A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert not having a 5 second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official calls this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

No, the official is NOT correct. Legal play.

Can you think of a rule that would make it illegal?

[cford]

One example of when this would be unsporting is when they through it off their opponent's head. If you've ever watched those "And 1" shows they do it all the time. I would definitely consider this taunting and unsporting.

[kltuck]

Where do the books address the term "Basketball Play?" Using that train of thought, if a coach said dribble down the court and bounce the ball off the nearest opponent that would make it an official basketball play and therefore legal? Can't buy that. I understand that everyone has opinions and interpretations but I try to find my basis for decisions in the book where possible.

I just don't agree, that doesn't make me right.

[ChuckElias]

It's not a basketball play just b/c the coach says to do it. A "basketball play" is a "normal" way of playing the game. Touching an opponent with the ball is a normal part of the game, even if it's done intentionally. Touching an opponent with the ball in order to injure him/her is not a normal way to play the game and must be penalized.

[mick]

Originally posted by kltuck
Where do the books address the term "Basketball Play?" Using that train of thought, if a coach said dribble down the court and bounce the ball off the nearest opponent that would make it an official basketball play and therefore legal? Can't buy that. I understand that everyone has opinions and interpretations but I try to find my basis for decisions in the book where possible.

I just don't agree, that doesn't make me right.

kltuck,
It would be good for you to take a look at Page 10 of the Rule Book. Read it. Sense it. Begin to feel it.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by kltuck
Where do the books address the term "Basketball Play?" Using that train of thought, if a coach said dribble down the court and bounce the ball off the nearest opponent that would make it an official basketball play and therefore legal? Can't buy that. I understand that everyone has opinions and interpretations but I try to find my basis for decisions in the book where possible.

I just don't agree, that doesn't make me right.

If you don't agree and you try to find your basis for your decisions in the book, then please cite something out of the book that would make that play illegal then.

I'm always willing to learn.

PS- you may want to check out casebook play 9.5.3 during your search for a rules citation that will back up your position:
"A1 is dribbling in backcourt and ends the dribble, but defensive pressure prevents a pass to A2. A1 then passes the ball so that it touches B1. A1 recovers the loose ball in backcourt and dribbles again.
RULING: NO VIOLATION. When A1's pass was touched by, or touched another player, he/she may start a new dribble. The 10-second backcourt count continues".

PPS- That's not MY opinion or interpretation. It's the NFHS's opinion, interpretation and rule.

[Nevadaref]

I'm having trouble believing that someone who has officiated for eight years has problems with this. Shouldn't one have learned long ago that throwing the ball so that it deflects OFF an opponent is legal, but throwing the ball AT an opponent is unsporting?
And if the necessary judgment to decide which action is taking place hasn't developed in those eight years, it might be time to start thinking about doing something else with your spare time.

[kltuck]

I agree and have at no time said otherwise. I am just pushing both sides because I want to hear everyones opinions as well as those that can cite the true rules.) Not, just the arrogant greater than thou opinions such as yours. I think it's great that after years, you have closed your mind to the other thoughts out there because you have everything figured out to the letter. I can only hope that I never become so closed minded.

Thanks Jurassic, finally someone knew what was in print.

[kltuck]

Poor manners on someone else's part do not justify poor manners in return. I apologoze to all who read this. I respect Nevadaref's opinions as I do everyone's. What makes these forums great is the ability to have so many diverse opinions, but it's difficult not to respond to personal attacks during your first post to the site. I suppose I'll get accustomed to it. There is always someone out there willing to beat on there chest for all to hear. I suppose I'm one of them sometimes.