10 second backcourt count

[brianp134]

Here is a scenario for you:

In a 3 person crew, new trail bringing the ball up with A1 dribbling. Team B is pressing & center official is providing assistance with the press. Trail has started his or her 10 second count and shot clock is down from 35 to 23. Trail does not call 10 second backcourt violation. As the center official would you call this violation, since the shot-clock is at 12 seconds and you have definite knowledge?

[ChuckElias]

Assuming the shot clock was started correctly (and control was immediately established), then yes. No question. However, if the shot clock operator has been spotty, or I'm not sure exactly when Team A gained control of the ball, then I'll withhold the whistle.

[zebraman]

Heck no, not unless you want your implode the crew's ability to work together. Besides, other than maybe checking to make sure that the shot clock started initially, the center would never be clock watching during a live ball when he/she is supposed to be providing assistance with the press.

What's next, calling a violation on the throwing team because you counted to six before your partner (who is administering a throw-in) called a five-second violation? There has to be some trust in your partners ... you said your partner started the count so you know that a ten-second count is in progress... it isn't like your parnter forgot about it.

Z

[Edited by zebraman on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 02:04 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman
Heck no, not unless you want your implode the crew's ability to work together. Besides, other than maybe checking to make sure that the shot clock started initially, the center would never be clock watching during a live ball when he/she is supposed to be providing assistance with the press.

Z

Where did the poster say the C is "clock watching"?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Where did the poster say the C is "clock watching"?

If the center is helping on the press, I don't see how he/she would have to turn away from the play to check a shot clock and unless they were clock watching, they don't know if maybe the shot clock operator did some type of adjustment. If I see that my partner has a count going, I'm not going to run in and take that call away from them.

Z

[brianp134]

Doe the center have the count as a secondary responsibility?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

If the center is helping on the press, I don't see how he/she would have to turn away from the play to check a shot clock and unless they were clock watching, they don't know if maybe the shot clock operator did some type of adjustment. If I see that my partner has a count going, I'm not going to run in and take that call away from them.

Z

Do you know where the shot clock is typically found?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Do you know where the shot clock is typically found?

Why are we checking the shot clock? the game clock should be the one that matters.

[ChuckElias]

If (1) nothing unusual happened during the throw-in and (2) the shot clock started properly, then (3) a violation has occured by the time the shot clock shows 23 seconds.

That's a fact. There can be no debate about that.

This is not about clock-watching, about hurt feelings or credibility. This is a basic question about whether or not we enforce a violation that our partner missed when it's obvious that s/he missed it. And keep in mind that this isn't a "spirit of the rule" kind of question. It is the intent of the rule for someone to blow the whistle after 10 seconds of team control in the backcourt.

This is exactly the same as if A1 jumped up and down with the ball and your partner didn't call it. He was watching off the ball at just that instant and didn't see it. Do you call the travel? Exactly the same.

The question is, if you as the C notice this, do you whistle it or do you ignore the violation?

I vote for whistle it.

[zebraman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
Do you know where the shot clock is typically found?

In the gyms around here, it's normally on the wall in the very corner of the gym or sometimes on the floor in the very corner of the gym. It takes more than a "peek," it takes a look. Maybe one gym has it on top of the backboard.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Why are we checking the shot clock? the game clock should be the one that matters.

Both clocks matter, but shot clock foulups happen far more frequently than game shot foulups IMO. I make it a habit to monitor the shot clock to make sure it starts when it should, stops when it should, resets when it should and does not reset when it shouldn't.

It's not always possible to do this but it is possible quite often. Between the crew someone should be aware of how well, or not so well the shot clock is being handled by the table at any point in the game.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Do you know where the shot clock is typically found?

In the gyms around here, it's normally on the wall in the very corner of the gym or sometimes on the floor in the very corner of the gym. It takes more than a "peek," it takes a look. Maybe one gym has it on top of the backboard.

Personally, I'm always going to have more confidence in my partners ability to count to ten (especially when I see his arm moving) than in the shot clock operator.


Z

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Do you know where the shot clock is typically found?

In the gyms around here, it's normally on the wall in the very corner of the gym or sometimes on the floor in the very corner of the gym. It takes more than a "peek," it takes a look. Maybe one gym has it on top of the backboard.

Z

Then either the clocks are not positioned correctly or you just aren't trying hard enough. It aint all that hard to keep an eagle eye on the shot clock, and if you ignore this you are asking for big, big trouble.

IMO.

I see you added more to your post.

It aint about trusting your partner.

It's about each official on the floor being aware of the clocks (I might add without being accused of being a clock watcher).


[Edited by Dan_ref on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 02:45 PM]

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Then either the clocks are not positioned correctly or you just aren't trying hard enough. It aint all that hard to keep an eagle eye on the shot clock, and if you ignore this you are asking for big, big trouble.

IMO.

I check to make sure it starts and stops and resets properly. I'm not watching it constantly and I don't look at it to monitor my partners 10-second count speed.

If my partner can't count to ten, I need new partner.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

I check to make sure it starts and stops and resets properly. I'm not watching it constantly and I don't look at it to monitor my partners 10-second count speed.

If my partner can't count to ten, I need new partner.

Z

Oh, and BTW, I forgot to mention if I'm T and my count gets close to 10 I make sure the shot clock agrees with me before blowing the whistle (i've already verified it started properly or if any shot clock time ran off before the offensive team got control of the ball in the backcourt). And If I'm not T and I think he might we getting close to 10 in the backcourt I'll peek at the shot clock also. Or if the team with the ball has had it a while without a shot...and on every whistle...and before every throw-in....and if I don't have much else going on in my area...

I guess I'm just a clock watcher.

And maybe if your partner can't count to 10 you do need a new partner, but you aint getting one so you've got to deal with it.