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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 05:20pm
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Is there any real significance that some basketball officials are called "referees" and "umpires"?

After reading the rules (specifically the chapter on responsibilities), I think that the only differences are:
(1) the referee is in-charge of pre-game conferences;
(2) the referee is in-charge of the officiating team;
(3) the referee is usually the most senior (in experience not age, but usually that goes hand-in-hand) official;
(4) AND (most importantly!), the referee tosses the ball for a jump ball (how fun!).

So the way I understand it, the referee is like the crew chief. Aside from that, the umpire(s) have the same authority as the referee in game management and working the game. Correct?

And lastly, as far as I know, only basketball officials plus anyone who's read the actual rules even know that umpires exist in basketball. I'm betting 95% of coaches, players and fans don't even know this.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 06:28pm
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(1) True
(2) True
(3) False (Age/experience in many cases doesn't really have anything to do with it.)
(4) True
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 06:38pm
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The Referee does have some extra responsibility-

-decide if a goal counts, if officials disagree
-can declare the game a forfeit
-make decisions on points not covered in the rules

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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 06:48pm
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He also decides if we wear pleats or regular slacks and mesh or regular shirts.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 07:51pm
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The R also chooses where the post-game is held.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 07:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
The R also chooses where the post-game is held.
While the U has to eat the cost
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 09:14pm
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A full basketball officaiting crew consists of a R, U1, U2, U3, and a U4 as well as an Official Scorer, Official Timer, and Shot Clock Operator when appropriate.

The rules books and mechanics manuals do a good job of defining the dutie of the R, U1, U2, and U3. Most everybody should now that the U3 is the alternate official and the CCA Manuals define his duties. But the most important official is the U4. He has only two duties while watching the game at the local sports bar: 1) Make sure that appetizers are hot and on the table, and 2) pitchers of cold liquid refreshments are also on the table when the rest of the crew gets there.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 09:31pm
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The downside of being R around here (IL) is that if the anthem singer does not show, the R has to fill his/her duties in singing! (laughs)
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 10:23pm
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During the game the most important duties of the R are:
1. flip the arrow and verify the score at halftime
2. handle all clock/timing adjustments

Most officials don't realize #2 is to handled solely by the R. I cover this in pregame. If I am the R and there is a clock problem, I want my partner's input and advice, but they are not to go to the table and change the clock without me.

When I am an Umpire, I go to the R and tell him what I believe needs to be done, then let him go to the table and fix it.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:09pm
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The R is also responsible for seeing to it that one team is ahead at the end of regulation. If he fails, he is required to endure another jump ball, one additional time out per team, and a few more minutes of play. By state adoption, the R is the also required to cover the cost of post-game beverages (a concession to the U for having to work the extra four minutes with the R).
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Old Thu Oct 21, 2004, 07:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
A full basketball officaiting crew consists of a R, U1, U2, U3, and a U4 as well as an Official Scorer, Official Timer, and Shot Clock Operator when appropriate.

Hmmm...

I was going to make a comment here about the officials including scorers and timers (plural), but then I checked the NFHS book, and only the singular are listed in 2-1.

When did they sneak this change in?

The NCAA book still says (I'm pretty certain of this) something like "... two scoreres and two timers.... One of each may be used if acceptable to the R"
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Old Thu Oct 21, 2004, 07:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
[/B]
I was going to make a comment here about the officials including scorers and timers (plural), but then I checked the NFHS book, and only the singular are listed in 2-1.

When did they sneak this change in?

[/B][/QUOTE]Unannounced change in the 2003-04 book.
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Old Thu Oct 21, 2004, 08:26am
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Historical Perspective

There was originally a greater difference between the two roles. The titles still remain, even though the job descriptions have changed considerably.

From Naismith's original 13 rules:

10. The umpire shall be the judge of the men and shall note the fouls and notify the referee when three consecutive fouls have been made. He shall have power to disqualify men according to Rule 5.

11. The referee shall be judge of the ball and shall decide when the ball is in play, in bounds, to which side it belongs, and shall keep the time. He shall decide when a goal has been made and keep account of the goals, with any other duties that are usually performed by a referee.
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Old Thu Oct 21, 2004, 08:27am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
A full basketball officaiting crew consists of a R, U1, U2, U3, and a U4 as well as an Official Scorer, Official Timer, and Shot Clock Operator when appropriate.

The rules books and mechanics manuals do a good job of defining the dutie of the R, U1, U2, and U3. Most everybody should now that the U3 is the alternate official and the CCA Manuals define his duties. But the most important official is the U4. He has only two duties while watching the game at the local sports bar: 1) Make sure that appetizers are hot and on the table, and 2) pitchers of cold liquid refreshments are also on the table when the rest of the crew gets there.

MTD, Sr.
Nice... So then U4 can start early. And if he gets paid, I want to be the U4... I'd have less laundry to do.
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Old Thu Oct 21, 2004, 09:30am
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Re: Historical Perspective

Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
There was originally a greater difference between the two roles. The titles still remain, even though the job descriptions have changed considerably.

From Naismith's original 13 rules:

10. The umpire shall be the judge of the men and shall note the fouls and notify the referee when three consecutive fouls have been made. He shall have power to disqualify men according to Rule 5.

11. The referee shall be judge of the ball and shall decide when the ball is in play, in bounds, to which side it belongs, and shall keep the time. He shall decide when a goal has been made and keep account of the goals, with any other duties that are usually performed by a referee.
Judge of the "MEN"?

"MEN"???

Oh, my. If Rainmaker hears about this, she'll be suing Naisith's bony old a$$ all the way back to Springfield. She'll end up OWNING him, as well as the peach basket he rode in on.
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