live ball/dead ball

[mdray]

A1 attempts a shot as time is running down in the game. Horn sounds while ball is in flight. A1's try is then legally touched in flight by A2. Ball goes in. Count the goal? Losing coach complained it shouldn't count. We counted the goal because the try was not "ended" by A2's legal touch.

[Grail]

Don't have my books with me, but I believe that A1's try ends when A2 touches the ball. If this had happened in the middle of the quarter, A2 would have received credit for the basket. Additionally, we have already established in another thread that if A1 had shot from beyond the 3 point arc, but A2 touches it inside the arc, the basket is worth only 2 points.

[Jurassic Referee]

NFHS rule 6-7NOTE- "If A1's try or tap is legally touched in flight, the goal counts if made, if the horn sounds before or after the legal touching".

[zebraman]

Originally posted by mdray
A1 attempts a shot as time is running down in the game. Horn sounds while ball is in flight. A1's try is then legally touched in flight by A2. Ball goes in. Count the goal? Losing coach complained it shouldn't count. We counted the goal because the try was not "ended" by A2's legal touch.

Mdray,

More info please. What exactly did A2 do? Tip the ball? Did it hit A2's shoulder? How was it touched?

Z

[ChuckElias]

To touch the ball legally during the try, A2 must either:

a) touch the try before it reaches its maximum height (on the way up); or

b) on its downward flight, touch the ball outside the imaginary cylinder when there is NO chance for the ball to enter the basket. (If A2 touches the ball on its downward flight while the ball has a chance to enter the basket, it would offensive goaltending, so obviously not a legal touch.)

It seems crazy that A2 would touch the ball on its way up (trying to block his teammates shot?). But if A2 touches the ball on the way down when it has NO chance of going in, then the try had already ended. Which means that if it then goes in (when the buzzer had already sounded), the goal would not count.

[jritchie]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
It seems crazy that A2 would touch the ball on its way up (trying to block his teammates shot?). But if A2 touches the ball on the way down when it has NO chance of going in, then the try had already ended. Which means that if it then goes in (when the buzzer had already sounded), the goal would not count. [/B]

it does seem crazy, but on page 48 of nfhs book rule 6-7 note at the bottom says goal counts before or after the horn sounds!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by jritchie
it does seem crazy, but on page 48 of nfhs book rule 6-7 note at the bottom says goal counts before or after the horn sounds!!

I'm not debating that. My only point was that I can't imagine that A2 touched it on the way up. So if the touch was on the way down, it was either illegal due to goaltending, or it was legal b/c the try was already over. If the try was already over, then the goal would NOT count as the touch (in the original play) came after the horn.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I'm not debating that. My only point was that I can't imagine that A2 touched it on the way up. So if the touch was on the way down, it was either illegal due to goaltending, or it was legal b/c the try was already over. If the try was already over, then the goal would NOT count as the touch (in the original play) came after the horn.

The note goes on to include GT or BI ending the try.

The only time where I can see this happening is this situation: A1 inbounds the ball and throws a lob pass toward A's basket. A2 and A3 both go for the ball and A2 taps it first,A3 then touches it on its way up toward the basket.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by blindzebra

The note goes on to include GT or BI ending the try.

The only time where I can see this happening is this situation: A1 inbounds the ball and throws a lob pass toward A's basket. A2 and A3 both go for the ball and A2 taps it first,A3 then touches it on its way up toward the basket.

Or on a rebound. Both go for the ball. A1 taps it toward the basket and A2 touches just afterwards.

[Adam]

mdray,
I think we would all benefit from a more detailed synopsis of the actual shot and how it was touched. I'm trying to imagine the following timeline, and it's difficult.

1. Shot taken.
2. Horn sounds.
3. A2 legally touches ball; not altering the shot or ending the shot.
4. Ball goes in.

1, 2, and 3 would have to happen so close together that it would be difficult to make a firm determination of the order.

[Jurassic Referee]

Mdray already told us that the legal touching by A2 didn't end the try. If A2 LEGALLY touched A1's try in flight without ending the try, then A2 HAD to touch it on the way up. That is the ONLY time that it could be legally touched by any other player without ending the try.