What would you do?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by ChuckElias

whyinthehellnot?

I like both sides of this argument...

The loud screaming coach... it is definitely easy to justify a T-bone here. The act is sold to everyone already - by the coach. It just now needs to be administered by the official.

Most LOOKS I can look away from and thereby ignore. But why do I need to look away. This coach is trying to create some animosity by giving you the "I'm gonna kick your arse" look. Am I required to ignore, acknowledge, see past ... what? Often I can look away/beyond such childish acts but perhaps today, I choose to acknowledge his antics. I still feel justified and now after administering the T, less distracted.

The nose hold, or throat choke... T-Bone

The accusatory diligent stare... maybe, maybe not. I would really like to smile and wave at the coach who wants to spend his timeout staring me down... but that IS kind of smartassed... and funny.



[Edited by DownTownTonyBrown on Sep 27th, 2004 at 12:48 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
whyinthehellnot?

Because he's not doing anything illegal. He's looking at you. What are you gonna write on the report? "He was looking at me in a very mean way"? "He was creeping me out"? Boo-hoo. Poor baby.

He is entitled to stand and look at you if he wants to. It's his TO.

In the Temple game, the coach was John Chaney, a major league dexterhole, who once said he'd kill John Calipari. I believe that he was NOT T'd up for the stare-down incident. I could be wrong, but I saw it on TV, and I'm pretty sure that there was no T. Perhaps there was another incident that resulted in a T, I'm not sure.

Finally, the comment about blowing a kiss was intended to be a joke. That would obviously be unprofessional and inappropriate. I was trying to be funny. I have however, flashed the big grin to fans.

[Edited by ChuckElias on Sep 27th, 2004 at 07:53 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Because he's not doing anything illegal. He's looking at you. What are you gonna write on the report? "He was looking at me in a very mean way"? "He was creeping me out"? Boo-hoo. Poor baby.

He is entitled to stand and look at you if he wants to. It's his TO.

In the Temple game, the coach was Don Chaney, a major league dexterhole, who once said he'd kill John Calipari. I believe that he was NOT T'd up for the stare-down incident. I could be wrong, but I saw it on TV, and I'm pretty sure that there was no T. Perhaps there was another incident that resulted in a T, I'm not sure.

Finally, the comment about blowing a kiss was intended to be a joke. That would obviously be unprofessional and inappropriate. I was trying to be funny. I have however, flashed the big grin to fans.

A "T" is in the eye of the beholder. I would probably beholder with Dan on this one. If a coach is trying to make me look like a dexterhole, imo, then a T is his just reward. And I are a just official!

It was Don Chaney and it was probably closer to 15 years ago. You're right- he didn't get a T for that, but he got one later on in the same game. And threatening to kill Calipari definitely does NOT make him a bad person. Chaney would have to stand in line for that one. Calipari is a jerk.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Because he's not doing anything illegal. He's looking at you. What are you gonna write on the report?

Probably the same thing that Joey Crawford wrote on his report to the NBA when he tossed Don Nelson of the Mavs for taking a time-out to stare at him last year.

Besides, the case I saw a coach get a T for it was the first T so no report was necessary.

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Because he's not doing anything illegal. He's looking at you. What are you gonna write on the report? "He was looking at me in a very mean way"? "He was creeping me out"? Boo-hoo. Poor baby.

Why are you so concerned about some after game report?

You make all your calls based on how you'll justify them later?

[blindzebra]

Kinda like Ron Garretson's, "Stop eyeballing me, Rasheed," T a few years ago.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Grail
I saw this T on TV several years back. It was called on the Temple coach (whose name I can't come with at this moment). I think I'd have ignored him. The announcers were harping during the entire timeout on how he was showing up the refs, so maybe he deserved it.

John Chaney.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
Besides, the case I saw a coach get a T for it was the first T so no report was necessary.

My understanding is that the ECAC requires a report on every unsporting T, not just ejections.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Why are you so concerned about some after game report?

Because that report goes to my assignor. And if my assignor thinks that I have a quick trigger, or that I ref with a chip on my shoulder, or that I can't handle a guy looking at me the wrong way, I lose assignments. So I want to be able to put a quote on that report: "He called me a so-and-so". I don't want the report to say, "I didn't like the way he was looking at me".

You make all your calls based on how you'll justify them later?

No. But you and I both know that as you move up, the name of the game is "beat the tape". When the commissioner looks at that tape (and you know he'll get the tape if you throw that T), I don't want to get a phone call asking, "What did he say to you?" or "What did he do?" I want it to be obvious that something happened.

And finally, you focused on my comment about the report and overlooked the most important part of that post. You can't T the coach b/c he hasn't done anything illegal. Looking at you is not illegal. There's nothing in the book that prohibits "staring" or "glaring" or whatever. He hasn't addressed you in a disrespectful manner, b/c he hasn't addressed you at all. If you really feel that the staring is not acceptible, you put that T "in your pocket", as Edgar would say, and bring it out the next time he does something that is borderline that you might normally let go. I personally would not do this, but I honestly believe that you can't T a guy for doing literally nothing.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Because that report goes to my assignor. And if my assignor thinks that I have a quick trigger, or that I ref with a chip on my shoulder, or that I can't handle a guy looking at me the wrong way, I lose assignments. So I want to be able to put a quote on that report: "He called me a so-and-so". I don't want the report to say, "I didn't like the way he was looking at me".

No. But you and I both know that as you move up, the name of the game is "beat the tape". When the commissioner looks at that tape (and you know he'll get the tape if you throw that T), I don't want to get a phone call asking, "What did he say to you?" or "What did he do?" I want it to be obvious that something happened.

And finally, you focused on my comment about the report and overlooked the most important part of that post. You can't T the coach b/c he hasn't done anything illegal. Looking at you is not illegal. There's nothing in the book that prohibits "staring" or "glaring" or whatever. He hasn't addressed you in a disrespectful manner, b/c he hasn't addressed you at all. If you really feel that the staring is not acceptible, you put that T "in your pocket", as Edgar would say, and bring it out the next time he does something that is borderline that you might normally let go. I personally would not do this, but I honestly believe that you can't T a guy for doing literally nothing.

I don't put one in my pocket.

I don't take unsporting disrespectful bullsh1t from coaches. Where I come from staring someone down is a threat. If the coach is too stupid to realize this then too f'ing bad.

I don't worry about what I'll say to anyone after taking care of business.

[rainmaker]

A coach did this to me once -- called a TO and then stared at me the whole time. I debated the T, but the only person who looked like a fool through the whole time-out was him! He was the away coach from a long distance, so he didn't have a lot of fans there to back him up. He was losing badly, because he was a lousy coach, and he didn't know the rules. I didn't see any point in being quick on the trigger. Later, I had to T him for something else and I was glad I didn't have to toss him. Reports, and all that...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Where I come from staring someone down is a threat.

[/B][/QUOTE]I agree with Mr. Bickle.Just say to the coach "You talking to me?"

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I don't put one in my pocket.

As I said, I wouldn't either. I've never done that. It was just a suggestion.

I don't take unsporting disrespectful bullsh1t from coaches. Where I come from staring someone down is a threat. If the coach is too stupid to realize this then too f'ing bad.

Well, I guess I'm too stupid to realize it too. Because where I come from, staring someone down is staring.

I don't worry about what I'll say to anyone after taking care of business.

Obviously, you and I think differently about this, and that's ok. You can't always be right. And besides, it's a pretty interesting conversation. But honestly, what "business" is being taken care of? Nothing's been said, nothing has happened. No gestures were made. I don't see how an official can give a T for literally nothing. JMHO.

[bob jenkins]

In general, I agree with Chuck on this -- either ignore it, or T for something else*, or bait him into a T (no -- I'm not recommending this), or talk to him -- "I need you to go to your huddle, coach" or "did you have a qquestion?"

* -- example of a T for something else: A5 fouled out. After I reported the foul, and notified the coach, he decided to use the 30 seconds to step (one or two steps) onto the floor to stare at me. I made a big deal (so everyone could see / wouold know what was happening) of instructing the timer to time 30 seconds and give me a horn when the time had elapsed.

When the horn went off, there was no player at the table. T. Immediately.

[jritchie]

staring is not a technical foul...don't see staring in the rule book under technical foul either... yeah it may aggrevate some, but surely he had to say something that you could of T'd him for before he started his little staring spree???