Aaarrgh!!!

[devdog69]

I worked a tournament this weekend, with the typical know nothing fans and parent coaches. I ended up dumping three coaches over the course of the weekend which is alot. I have a question about one situation that led to a coach going ballistic and getting ejected. First of all, there was some prior history as I had their team a couple of weeks ago and he got very irate and out of control and I dinged him then, so he was ready for any mistake I made, I believe and was going to try to embarrass me, since he convinced his crowd and players that we cost them the game the first time around.

Sitch: Team A makes a basket. Team B player takes the ball after it goes through the hoop sets it down on the baseline and bends over and proceeds to tie her shoe. I give it a few seconds and begin walking up the court (summer ball mechanic). I'm about even with the free-throw line extended when I start a five second count. He flips out, literally screaming that it is my job to stop the clock and let her tie her shoe. Even though I got all the way to 6 and didn't call the violation, he still went off enough to get a T. About 45 seconds later, he gets the second one after he follows me to halfcourt griping at me and I then tell him he needs to have a seat because he lost the box when he got the tech. Well, he blows up then. Screaming that I don't know what I'm doing, get the second one, and continues screaming says "I don't care how long you've been calling, you suck at officiating". Although, there is no excuse for his behavior, in the original situation would you stop the clock to let the player tie her shoe. What rule reference? Other comments?

[smoref]

First of all I would like to say WOW! You tossed 3 coaches over a weekend. Never heard of that before.



I personaly will not stop the game for someone to tie their shoes. If it is already a dead ball I will delay putting the ball in play until the player has finsihed tying it but not stop play.

I think I would have started the count as well. I might have told the player to inbound the ball before tying the shoe.

JUst my thoughts.

[som44]

Not sure of the rule reference but depending on the game situation i would call time out and allow the player to tie thier shoe--safety precaution--if not the proper game situation to do this I would just give them time to tie shoe at next dead ball

[devdog69]

Just let me add that I will always delay putting the ball in play for a player to tie their shoe, but I have never stopped play for it, not even a player who loses their shoe, unless I think it could be a safety issue.

[devdog69]

Originally posted by smoref
First of all I would like to say WOW! You tossed 3 coaches over a weekend. Never heard of that before.

Yes, it was wild. I'm working with two guys who are first year guys so that they can get some court time and learn and these people act like idiots. The other two were almost too easy. The first one was out about the free throw line during play in my partners face yelling and he had absolutely no gripe, call was good. Partner whacked him, and I got him again about two seconds later since he was not stopping or making an effort to get off the court. The other guy first took off his glasses and slid them about two feet out on the floor, then screamed at the top of his lungs "THAT IS TOTAL, COMPLETE BULL****! YOU'VE BEEN SCREWING US ALL WEEKEND". As I whacked him, he screams "I'M LEAVING". I was like, duh... To the credit of the other adults on the bench, every body was much more well behaved after his exit, the kids came back from 19 down to make it a two point game, go figure...

[mick]

Originally posted by devdog69
Just let me add that I will always delay putting the ball in play for a player to tie their shoe, but I have never stopped play for it, not even a player who loses their shoe, unless I think it could be a safety issue.

*Coaching 101 should include tying bows with square knots.

devdog69,
My inclination is to not stop the clock.
However, ...I may feel slightly obliged to stop it in your sitch with the ball outside the lines just as a courtesy to the player.
I have no reason to stop it other than gut feeling.
Do we use advantage/disadvantage here?
mick

[ChuckElias]

What was the level of play? If it was extremely low (5th/6th grade), then I may stop play when the ball is dead. If I have to stop play more than once, I inform the coaches that shoelaces will be treated the same as uniform shirts. If they're not done up, I'll ask for a sub.

Jr High and above, no stoppage for shoelaces.

P.S. -- don't stop the clock to get the net down either! (stir, stir, stir. . . )

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

P.S. -- don't stop the clock to get the net down either! (stir, stir, stir. . . )

Good one, Chuck!
What do you do?
Teach me.
I don't thnk I have gotten a net down more than a coupla times.
mick

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by mick

Good one, Chuck!
What do you do?
Teach me.
I don't thnk I have gotten a net down more than a coupla times.
mick

Mick, tht's why Chuck has a partner.

[mick]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Mick, tht's why Chuck has a partner.

That's funny, TravelinMan !
A coupla years ago I was workin' a game with a 6'3" strappin' college lad. We didn't need a ball.
mick

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by mick

That's funny, TravelinMan !
A coupla years ago I was workin' a game with a 6'3" strappin' college lad. We didn't need a ball.
mick

Isn't it fun working with those young jumpin Jacks. And you can say "hey, get that for me will ya?" and "I'll get the next one". Right.

[zebraman]

Summer league mechanics? What are those. Probably never a good idea for the trail to be ahead of the play. That aside, why not just blow your whistle and let the player tie their shoe? What harm would it cause?

Z

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by zebraman
Summer league mechanics? What are those. Probably never a good idea for the trail to be ahead of the play. That aside, why not just blow your whistle and let the player tie their shoe? What harm would it cause?

Z

I agree, just as a courtesy, especially if the ball wasn't at the disposal of the player, blow the whistle and allow the player to tie his shoes, there's no real harm there and no advantage gained. Judging by your post, it doesn't seem like there was any pressure being applied by the defense, so his team would not be gaining any advantage by your allowing him to tie the shoes. I wasn't there but it doesn't look like the coach was trying to embarrass you, and if you've had trouble with that team before, here's a good time to give them the benefit of the doubt. If this same situation happens again though, don't be as lenient.

[tomegun]

As far as the net goes, an official should never, ever jump up to get the net. There have been officials hurt (ACL) doing this and it doesn't have to happen. Just use the ball to do it, if you really want it down.

I don't personally have any problems with throwing a coach out. However, where were your partners during all of this? Can you go over the sequence of tossing 3 coaches? I'm just curious as to what your partners were doing as far as the two of them issuing Ts or if you had to be the bad guy all day. If the coaches did say what you said maybe they should have been gone with one T. If you counted to 6 and didn't call a violation I don't see anything wrong except your position on the floor. You also could have got the ball and just waited for the player to tie the shoe before you started the count. Either way, the player tied the shoe and you didn't have a violation. What was the exchange between you and the coach before the T(s)? Sounds kind of unreasonable to me given the fact that his team wasn't penalized at all.

[SMEngmann]

The way I read it, the violation was called and that sparked the argument. I do think preventative officiating may have helped in this case given the prior game, but again, I wasn't there so I don't know the whole circumstances.

As for the net, I can easily grab it myself or, if necessary, use the ball, but I simply ask one of the players to take care of it for me on the remote chance that something embarrassing could happen (torn net, net won't come down, etc). We already have enough on our plates without dealing with the nets.