Great call, partner

[tjchamp]

Let's modify the second foul. No LGP was established and a blocking foul called. If in bonus, does shooter get the two from the first hack, and the bonus throws?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Uhhhhm, no, I'm not sure that's what I meant to point out a mere 5 minutes ago.

Well, it's true anyway. You might as well take credit for it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by tjchamp
Let's modify the second foul. No LGP was established and a blocking foul called. If in bonus, does shooter get the two from the first hack, and the bonus throws?

Shooter is still in the act of shooting...bonus will not matter. This is either a multiple foul or a false multiple foul depending on the time seperation. I'd lean towards a multiple since I don't think the administration of two independant fouls against the same shooter is defined unless they're a multiple.

However, unless both fouls are extreme, ignoring one (usually the 2nd) is the standard...even in the case when the 2nd player had LGP.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Well, it's true anyway. You might as well take credit for it.

Well, no, it's not true.

NCAAM has the airborne shooter rule, it's identical to ncaaw. 4.1.

As you pointed out it's the PC rule that's different.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Well, it's true anyway. You might as well take credit for it.

Well, no, it's not true.

NCAAM has the airborne shooter rule, it's identical to ncaaw. 4.1.[/B][/QUOTE]
They both define an airborne shooter, I'll grant you that. I was wording it the same way the chart of rules differences does it.

Airborne shooter NFHS: In air after release of try or tap; NCAA Men: No rule.

We're saying the same thing from different angles, I think.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Nevada -- Doesn't it feel great when someone you help gets better? At my camp last year there was a guy who really needed work, but he learned a lot. This year, he came to my 3-person clinics, and was invited to the college camp I went to. He got all kinds of recognition and awards, and he'll probably get college games in a year if not this fall. I almost felt like it was me moving up so fast. So to both you AND your friend I say, WAY TO GO!!

Certainly does. The two of us actually went to a couple of camps together in CA this summer and my friend got picked-up for a men's JC league. I really believe that he has what it takes to make D-1.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
However, unless both fouls are extreme, ignoring one (usually the 2nd) is the standard...even in the case when the 2nd player had LGP.

Camron,
This is why I didn't blow the whistle during the game. However, after going through the experience I have now changed my mind about this play. I now firmly believe that the 2nd foul should be called. I learned that it wasn't a big deal when we did it, and it is afterall the correct call.
Put me in the camp that votes not to ignore that second foul.

BTW, if the 2nd foul is a block, the play becomes a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty, just like a false double, so the shooter would get FOUR shots for an unsuccessful try or the basket and TWO shots (one for each foul) if the goal was made.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Nevadaref BTW, if the 2nd foul is a block, the play becomes a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty, just like a false double, so the shooter would get FOUR shots for an unsuccessful try or the basket and TWO shots (one for each foul) if the goal was made.[/B]

Sounds to me like this could be called a multiple foul (not false) since the fouls happened at approximately the same time. In that case, the shooter would get 2 FTs whether or not the try was successful.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
This is why I didn't blow the whistle during the game. However, after going through the experience I have now changed my mind about this play. I now firmly believe that the 2nd foul should be called. I learned that it wasn't a big deal when we did it, and it is afterall the correct call.
Put me in the camp that votes not to ignore that second foul.

BTW, if the 2nd foul is a block, the play becomes a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty, just like a false double, so the shooter would get FOUR shots for an unsuccessful try or the basket and TWO shots (one for each foul) if the goal was made.

This would NOT be a false multiple. It would be a multiple. As Lotto said, they are approximately at the same time. There is no way that the intent is to give A1 4 shots for a 2 missed 2 point try.

The false multiple would be when B1 fouls A1 on the shot. Then, during/after the FT but before the clock starts, B2 fouls A1.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust


[/B]

There is no way that the intent is to give A1 4 shots for a missed 2 point try.

[/B][/QUOTE]Agree with that completely.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
This is why I didn't blow the whistle during the game. However, after going through the experience I have now changed my mind about this play. I now firmly believe that the 2nd foul should be called. I learned that it wasn't a big deal when we did it, and it is afterall the correct call.
Put me in the camp that votes not to ignore that second foul.

BTW, if the 2nd foul is a block, the play becomes a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty, just like a false double, so the shooter would get FOUR shots for an unsuccessful try or the basket and TWO shots (one for each foul) if the goal was made.

Originally posted by Lotto
Sounds to me like this could be called a multiple foul (not false) since the fouls happened at approximately the same time. In that case, the shooter would get 2 FTs whether or not the try was successful.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
This would NOT be a false multiple. It would be a multiple. As Lotto said, they are approximately at the same time. There is no way that the intent is to give A1 4 shots for a missed 2 point try.

The false multiple would be when B1 fouls A1 on the shot. Then, during/after the FT but before the clock starts, B2 fouls A1.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Agree with that completely.

It looks like all of us are going to learn something during this thread because FOUR FTs is exactly what the NFHS wants on this play. It is stated directly in the case book.

"FALSE MULTIPLE FOUL
4.19.11 Situation: B1 fouls airborne A1 who is in the act of shooting. Before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor, he/she is fouled by B2 who has moved into A1's landing area. The ball: (a) does; or (b) does not, enter the basket. RULING: This is a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty. In (a), the goal is counted and A1 is awarded on free throw for each foul. In (b), A1 is awarded two free throws for each foul. (10-6 Pen 5a; 7)"

It's not often that JR forgets about a case book play! He's usually the one quoting them to us.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

[/B]

It's not often that JR forgets about a case book play! He's usually the one quoting them to us.
[/B][/QUOTE]Dumb rule.

Good catch, Nevada.

[Camron Rust]

Well, well, I stand corrected.

[tomegun]

Is it really the opinion of those involved with this thread to call both of these fouls? I can't picture the play or the reason for doing anything besides calling the first foul. It seems to me that this could be called often but it isn't. There are many times when a shooter gets fouled by multiple teammates and one foul is called. Is the play you are talking about different?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
Is it really the opinion of those involved with this thread to call both of these fouls? I can't picture the play or the reason for doing anything besides calling the first foul. It seems to me that this could be called often but it isn't. There are many times when a shooter gets fouled by multiple teammates and one foul is called. Is the play you are talking about different?

Just another what-if rules thingy conversation, Tomegun. You're right. You will never, ever see very many multiple fouls called. If any. They certainly can be called by rule though.