Swoopes unhappy with WNBA refs

OverAndBack · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 05:53pm

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2652242

Quote:

Swoopes contends that were she in the NBA, officials wouldn't be so hesitant to blow their whistles.

"I think it's very frustrating. I don't think that's something that would happen in the NBA," she said. "I think when you have veteran players, especially when you're going up against a rookie or a player who hasn't been in the league that much, usually the call's going to go to the veteran.

See, I've never understood that. A call is a call, regardless of the two (or more) players involved (at least in theory). Why would you give preferential treatment to somebody based on how long they've been around? If it's a foul, it's a foul. Call it. If it's not, don't.

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 06:44pm

With all due respect, but Swoopes should be happy that she has a league in the United States at all. I have always liked her, but some of these women spend too much time trying to compare themselves with a league that both men and women across the country pay attention too. I will admit I am not the biggest NBA fan as I used to be. But I sure have no problem following the league on a regular basis. No one even knows that the WNBA exsists half the time.

I had an interesting conversation this past weekend with a Coaches wife. Her husband was a Boy's Varsity Coach. They have a son that plays on the Sophomore team. And they have two daughters that both played basketball, but are now in college. On her own, she said to me, "I do not see how you guys do it?" What she meant, is how can you guys officiate that crap? I was surprised, but that is what she said. It was really funny to me. In comparison to these comments from Swoopes, that is what she is up against. I would suggest that she should feel fortunate to be in a league that no one cares about and she makes more moeny that 95% of the league because of her endorsements and notoriety.

Peace

OverAndBack · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 06:56pm

Does that mean that because her league isn't popular, she shouldn't expect officials to blow their whistle if she gets fouled?

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by OverAndBack
Does that mean that because her league isn't popular, she shouldn't expect officials to blow their whistle if she gets fouled?

No. What it means is, that she should be happy that anyone even knows who she is. The officials use the WNBA as a stepping stone to get to the NBA. Enough said about how much of a star she is seen. She is not in the NBA, and she should remember that.

In the NBA, I do not believe that even happens. The better players get calls because they make better plays. So she should just shut up.

Peace

GarthB · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 08:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
...she should be happy that anyone even knows who she is...She is not in the NBA, and she should remember that.
...So she should just shut up.

Peace

Sounds like you're suggesting she should know her place and shut up.

How enlightened.

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 09:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
Sounds like you're suggesting she should know her place and shut up.

How enlightened.

Garth, I realize that you are trying to start a flame war over some crap because of what is said on the baseball board. That is fine, but you will do it by yourself.

Actually, she should know her place. Not because of her gender, because of the league she is in. Anyone in this niche leagues like the Arena Football League, MLS or the WNBA, need to understand something about the officiating. Most of the officials are do not have a profession in those leagues. WNBA Officials are mostly NBA prospective officials or D1 Basketball Officials. I know Arena League Officials are College Football Officials or NFL prospects as well. So for her to complain about the philsophy of wha the NBA does as compared to what they should do in the WNBA is rather ridiculous.

Maybe if you go out more and off of baseball, you might have understand my point. Not to say you would agree with it, but those are some of the facts involved.

Peace

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
I have a lot of respect for Swoopes. She has achieved far more than anyone I know on this board. I would be interested in her opinion and hearing her reasons for it.

If she were an expert on officiating in professional basketball, I would be interested in her point of view as well.

But she isn't, is she?

Hawks Coach · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 08:17am

On a related front

Sol Campbell, of the recently eliminated Team England soccer team, on a call that was made against him disallowing a goal:

"If I had been Portuguese, the goal would have been allowed."

Portugal is hosting the Euro Cup and was England's opponent. Having seen the call, it was a no-brainer, and I would hope it would have been made regardless of who the home team was. They protect goalkeepers in soccer, and an English player held the goalie down while the goal was being scored.

Another happy player moonlighting as an oficiating expert. The Swoopes comment has nothing to do with gender or aything else. It has to do with somebody not happy with the calls or no-calls they get. Somehow, this consistently passes as news. To me, it is just more whining. Everybody has a reason the calls don't go their way.

OverAndBack · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 08:53am

Sorry, I wasn't intending it to be a discourse on the validity of non-officials' views on officiating or of anyone knowing their place in the world.

My point was - "Why should there be two sets of rules, one for 'star' players and one for the rank and file?"

Swoopes (and she's not the only one) seems to think that as a veteran player, a name player, if there's contact, she should get the call to go her way more often, especially if it's against a 'no-name' player. I'm sure there are men who feel this way, too.

So I'm just wondering - why should that be? Shouldn't a foul be a foul, whether it's Sheryl Swoopes or Tracy McGrady or Joe Blow on either end?

/idealist

Hawks Coach · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 09:03am

I do not agree with the system. I think that it is in place to a degree in the NBA, and especially against the "lesser" teams as well as unknown rookies and bench players. You have to earn your calls in the NBA. And you can also earn your no-calls. I know that others may say we fan-boys just don't understand, but I think it has been clear for years that the NBA does maintain a standard for fouls that is weighted toward the star players.

Again, that is a league driven by a profit motive, and you don't make money if Shaq and Kobe sit due to foul trouble, you do if they can score 25-30 a game, including from the line. Jrut is right that the WNBA doesn't have any stars with the kind of drawing power that would cause this behavior. And that is a positive in my book.

TerpZebra · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
The officials use the WNBA as a stepping stone to get to the NBA.

Obviously you do not know women's officiating or any WNBA referees. Do not assume that all officials would rather referee the NBA over WNBA.

The referees in the WNBA are just as qualified as the NBA ones.

TerpZebra

whistleone · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 11:22am

One thing I picked up at camp was that fans don't pay to see us officiate. They pay to see the players play. We, as officials, need to find the point at which we can call what we feel needs to be called and keep our integrity while allowing the players to do what fans pay to see.

Camron Rust · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 11:22am

Most fans and players (the ones that complain) have it all backwards. Those veteran players that seem to get the benefit on the calls aren't being favored by the officials. They're smart players who, over the years, have figured out what the refs call and what it takes to avoid the call or draw the foul. The rookies just don't know where the line is and the "stars" take advantage of that.

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 11:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by TerpZebra

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
The officials use the WNBA as a stepping stone to get to the NBA.

Obviously you do not know women's officiating or any WNBA referees. Do not assume that all officials would rather referee the NBA over WNBA.

I think you need to read the entire argument. Because the WNBA is used as a stepping stone by the NBA Officiating Program. Whether you realize it or not. The same goes for the NDBL and CBA and the many other Leagues you do not hear about that play pro ball. Of course most WNBA Officials do not want to be in the NBA and realistically, that is not going to happen anyway. There is only one Women in the NBA currently. But it is not a secret that have used WNBA Officials and moved them to the NBA. And why not, they make more money, the league is more secure and the NBA has more notoriety.

Quote:

Originally posted by TerpZebra
The referees in the WNBA are just as qualified as the NBA ones.

I know that the D1 Women's officials do not have the same amount of experience as the D1 Men's Officials to accomplish the very same levels.

For the record, I know D1 Men's and D1 Women's officials right in my back yard. The fact is that the Men's officials have more years of experience to to the same place as their Women Official counterparts. The fact is that the WNBA is an option for the D1 Women's side. The NBA is not a realistic option for the Men's Officials. They either have to give up college ball and get into the NBA Program to be considered for the NBA. I understand you are sensitive to these issue, but please do not go there with me about what I know about how people get to the NBA or WNBA. I am not at all an expert, but I know the route that officials have taken to get to those levels. You do not have to know anyone to see that. But in my case, I do know many D1 current and past College Officials. And they talk about these very things all the time.

Peace

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 11:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Most fans and players (the ones that complain) have it all backwards. Those veteran players that seem to get the benefit on the calls aren't being favored by the officials. They're smart players who, over the years, have figured out what the refs call and what it takes to avoid the call or draw the foul. The rookies just don't know where the line is and the "stars" take advantage of that.

I think that is true to an extent. But there are some no-calls that you just shake your head at. I have watched enough NBA to see a difference on similar plays, star gets the call, rookie gets the shrug (if even that).

I've always thought that the more compelling rationalization is that the stars have proven they can make the play, so they get the call. Until refs believe that the rookie's throw would have a reasonable chance without the foul, they won't see the contact as a disadvantage. I don't completely buy this one either, but it is a line of reasoning.