And you call yourselves officials?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BigGref
Coach A falls over in frustration/elation/overwhelminghood/exahustion (you pick the emotion) and is sprawled out on the floor for a good 10 seconds...

I had a coach fall to the floor, similiar to the this, a couple of seasons ago.

Yes, he got a T.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I had a coach fall to the floor, similiar to the this, a couple of seasons ago.

Yes, he got a T.

A hunnert years ago, when I was on the court, our coach jumped to the floor and hit it and basically went nuts cuz we didn't get our last shot off in a one point game.

He found out shortly there after, that we were up by one.
mick

Game over; no "T"

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I had a coach fall to the floor, similiar to the this, a couple of seasons ago.

Yes, he got a T.

What was T for? Do you have a rule to back this call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

What was T for? Do you have a rule to back this call?

He surely does, Coach. Rule 10-4-1--"Bench personnel shall not commit an unsporting foul. This includes, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO.....". Iow, it's strictly up to the judgement of each official as to whether you committed an unsporting act, or not. You takes your chances.......

[Hawks Coach]

If I yell "That's terrible, what are you thinking" at one of my players, is that unsportsmanlike? (I don't do this, but lots of coahces do and it isn't ever a T) If I yell it at you, does it change your opinion?

Same with anything else on the bench. I am not saying a coach needs to collapse (or that I have done or will do so), but it seems a leap to me to have an unsporting T unless something else occurs that renders this a comentary on your officiating rather than frustration with the team's play. The mere act of collapsing to the floor does not a T make in my book.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The point of this whole situation is that you don't know why he did it. And you won't know, not without something else occurring. So your response to potentially WHACK him can only be based on your mental interpretation of what he did. If you have to interpret, you don't want to T, especially in a game like this. Best to hold it til he does something to really earn it.

Hawks Coach -- I don't disagree with you very often, but here, I do. I think the only thing the ref CAN do is interpret. It's'a little risky, because as you say, the emotions are running a little high. But I think the ref should be allowed to judge what the coach's intent is. If it were me, I might be tempted to stop the game, and call an ambulance, just for effect. Tempted, I said. He'd get the medical attention he needed, or he'd never pull the stunt again. But if it is just an attention-getting over-dramatization, it's definitely a T.

[JRutledge]

Do not know how to do the big numbers thang that you do.

But damn Mick, 5000!!!!

That is a lot of posts.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
If I yell "That's terrible, what are you thinking" at one of my players, is that unsportsmanlike? (I don't do this, but lots of coahces do and it isn't ever a T) If I yell it at you, does it change your opinion?

Same with anything else on the bench. I am not saying a coach needs to collapse (or that I have done or will do so), but it seems a leap to me to have an unsporting T unless something else occurs that renders this a comentary on your officiating rather than frustration with the team's play. The mere act of collapsing to the floor does not a T make in my book.

He didn't merely fall to the floor. If he had, I would probably have just called the paramedics.

People don't fall to the floor for no reason. He either tripped, was ill, or was reacting to either his team's play or the call. I can assure you that he was reacting to the call. He did not like the call, reacted to it and then fell to the floor. It was an obvious attempt to display his displeasure and to show up my partner. Tweet.

But while we're discuissing ESP, how about when a kid slams the ball to the floor or pounds his fist on the floor after a call? Am I suppose to be a mindreader? Am I supposed to try to figure out if he's upset with the call or upset with himself?

I don't think so.

Thanks for the rule reference, JR.

[Hawks Coach]

I frequently see players mad at themselves or the situation slam a ball or pound a fist, never see Ts for this. so I fail to see the automatic, got to know why it happened. I am a believer that you don't look for somehting that isn't there. You may say somehting the first time it happens, like "If you slam the ball like that, I may think you're objecting my call, which would mean I have to give you a T. I don't think you really want that." Got a lot of emotions on the court. Call what you need to - the quick T where you choose to interpret what is going on without warning, doesn't seem to meet that criteria.

As for your sitch on the coach on the floor, it sounds like you knew what it was. Not sure how, but I wasnt there. If it was clear, give the T - no prob. But this sitch given by Bigref doesn't sound like you have knowledge - no knowledge, close game, time almost gone, should be wan first then T. Obviously many disagree. Oh well.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
I frequently see players mad at themselves or the situation slam a ball or pound a fist, never see Ts for this. so I fail to see the automatic, got to know why it happened. I am a believer that you don't look for somehting that isn't there. You may say somehting the first time it happens, like "If you slam the ball like that, I may think you're objecting my call, which would mean I have to give you a T. I don't think you really want that." Got a lot of emotions on the court. Call what you need to - the quick T where you choose to interpret what is going on without warning, doesn't seem to meet that criteria.

I might agree with you if the ball is slammed down hard and then caught as it comes back up. If the ball goes above the players head (rough rule of thumb here) then we really have no choice, do we? Yeah, a warning might be nice...but some things are *assumed* to be pre-warned.

Like slamming or throwing the ball after a call.

And yeah, I'm gonna ignore a player who just bends down & smacks the floor 90% of the time, then warn him. Unless he's been a pain in the butt, then he's gonna get one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The mere act of collapsing to the floor does not a T make in my book.

Unfortunately, Coach, your book don't count. If you wanna collapse on the floor, you had better know who you are collapsing in front of. Let me suggest that you don't ever try collapsing in front of Ref18. And if you even think of saying "damn" when you hit the floor, you had better hope that MTD Sr. isn't Ref18's partner either. Iow, the actual reason that you collapsed on the floor doesn't really matter; what the official THINKS is the actual reason that you collapsed on the floor IS what really matters. As I said "ya pays your money and ya takes your chances".

Somehow, I think that you knew all this anyway. Most good coaches will learn the tendencies of officials if they get them a few times, and they will then use those tendencies to their advantage if they can. That's just smart coaching.

[TPS2859]

If the coach is laying on the floor, I would WHACK him too, but on the HEAD to see if he's alive! Then if he/she doesnt move I'll say DAMN and my partner can whack me with a T for potty mouth. (can they do that?)

[Hawks Coach]

Don't know if you can give your partner a T, but when the ref ran into my ball handler this weekend, I told his partner he had to call it. It clearly wasn't incidental contact. Four more and he's gone (in my book ).

[Hawks Coach]

I think that you know that I know all that. Great points though. Everybody has their individual tolerance level, we see that all the way to the NBA.

Easiest way to avoid trouble is to avoid trouble. If you want to go flirting, then you can only avoid trouble if you know your flirting with the right person. Wrong place wrong person wrong time will get you every time. Pretty much works that way in life, too.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
no knowledge, close game, time almost gone, should be wan first then T. Obviously many disagree. Oh well.

I'm one of many. I guess in this situation the coach just helped you avoid overtime and get home to watch the news. Sometimes the best way to avoid trouble on the court is to nip it in the bud.