And you call yourselves officials?

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
I'm tired of talking about NBA refs and socks. Let's learn folks.

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on Jun 7th, 2004 at 02:21 PM]

Sorry all of the threads are not to your personal liking Ira, not every topic can be a case study. Pray tell, what type of socks do you wear?

[tomegun]

I have another topic that doesn't "teach." How many guys think athletes from pro to middle school don't compete and show up like they used to?
Today's athletes are the most talented/gifted physically ever without question. What irritates me is there is always an excuse for a lack of performance. It is either the ref's fault, the coach's fault or something else. I personally don't think there are many athletes that are winners anymore. Not as many anyway. You know Jordan, Majic, Bird, Russell, Montana, Ali, Gretsky, even Mary Lou. Kobe is starting to put together a resume like this but his team has to win. The Lakers have problems and they are being exposed.
A few years ago in Vegas there was this kid named Smokey that was about 5'6". I loved to watch him play because he got the job done. He didn't even shoot jumpers all that well. He would draw fouls, drive to the lane or dish. His team was terrible but they beat one of the best teams in the city. Smokey had 20 points in the quarter and 13 of those were from the line. I wasn't there but I wasn't surprised.
Have we increased in talent but lost the "IT" a winner has? It's like we have momentary stars. Roder can't pitch forever (maybe), Venus and Serena lose in the same round, Tiger hasn't won a big tourney in a while and Roy Jones got knocked out in the second round! What is the world coming to?

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by tomegun
I have another topic that doesn't "teach." How many guys think athletes from pro to middle school don't compete and show up like they used to?
Today's athletes are the most talented/gifted physically ever without question. What irritates me is there is always an excuse for a lack of performance. It is either the ref's fault, the coach's fault or something else. I personally don't think there are many athletes that are winners anymore. Not as many anyway. You know Jordan, Majic, Bird, Russell, Montana, Ali, Gretsky, even Mary Lou. Kobe is starting to put together a resume like this but his team has to win. The Lakers have problems and they are being exposed.
A few years ago in Vegas there was this kid named Smokey that was about 5'6". I loved to watch him play because he got the job done. He didn't even shoot jumpers all that well. He would draw fouls, drive to the lane or dish. His team was terrible but they beat one of the best teams in the city. Smokey had 20 points in the quarter and 13 of those were from the line. I wasn't there but I wasn't surprised.
Have we increased in talent but lost the "IT" a winner has? It's like we have momentary stars. Roder can't pitch forever (maybe), Venus and Serena lose in the same round, Tiger hasn't won a big tourney in a while and Roy Jones got knocked out in the second round! What is the world coming to?

1) Too much play - I think it gets to be too routine. When you play 80 games a year as a kid, do you really have the mental energy to care about all of them? If not, you start building bad mental habits at a young age.

2) Injuries have affected Tiger and the Williams sisters. You can say it's just an excuse, but the level of play is so high now compared to several years ago that you can't compete unless you are in top condition. and the injuries are coming at an earlier age because of . . . too much play at young ages, and a serious level of physcial effort that is required.

3) Today's athletes are more able to do things, but maybe that higher level of performance is harder to sustain than the lower levels we saw before. When the peak is twice what it used to be, it may just be too much to expect that you can stay there. Again, this can be taken as an excuse, but we really are in uncharted territory athletically speaking. If the valleys of performance are higher than the previous peaks were, are the athletes really doing that badly?

4) Better competition. there are more athletes that can knock you off the perch now. so we may not have noticed a drop off before, because the best on their worst day were still better than the wannabes. Maybe it's simply tha the wannabes have caught up. Just look at the number of competitive schools in the NCAA now as compared with 30 years ago. Night and day different, because there are more high level athletes out there now.

[Camron Rust]

It's a little bit of a nostalgic view of the past...when I was a kid....

There are still players that are winners. They're just not the ones we grew up on and view as "The winners". There have always been loafers and coasters. There always will be. There are some kids that give it there all every night out. As was just said above this post, they're not always the superstar but are the role players.

[tomegun]

Hawks coach/Camron, both good posts and I do not say that to have what I see all the time on this board ("you are the greatest", "I know you are a good official..." yada, yada, yada). Gives me some things to think about in regards to my feelings about current competition/athletes. However, since I grew up watching the guys I watched, I will take Magic, Kareem, Orel, Barry, Montana, Rice, Dickerson, Barkley, Gretsky and Isaiah against the world.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
what I see all the time on this board ("you are the greatest", "I know you are a good official..." yada, yada, yada).

Tom -- Quote me ONE of these in the last two weeks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Tom -- Quote me ONE of these in the last two weeks.

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to what this is all about, because it's confusing. Tom, are you saying that it's bad or wrong for any poster on this board to say that, in their own personal opinion, they think that someone is a GOOD official?

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
... are you saying that it's bad or wrong for any poster on this board to say that, in their own personal opinion, they think that someone is a GOOD official?

When I used to be a parent, and one of my babies said something of that nature, I would say, "Aw..., no one will play with you? Do you need a hug?"
mick

[tomegun]

Rainmaker, I will find one for you if you didn't delete them all

Jurassic, there is nothing wrong with saying someone is a good person or good official if you know that about them personally. Otherwise I just think you can say they are a good typist

Mick, there are many things I could say similar to what you said but it would just turn into something nasty. For what? If someone can deny this "Internet Love", and the vast majority of posters do not do it, then I will say I was wrong. That will not happen unless someone deletes a lot of posts. See, I have asked a member of the forum if they knew someone they constantly gave kudos to and the answer was no. How can you tell if someone is a good official by what they type on this board? A lot of people know a lot of "rulebook" officials and this forum is a place some of them could hang out at. For me, many people on this board have sparked an interest in me to want to work with them or see them work. Some of this is for good reasons and some of this is for not so good reasons. However, I can not determine if someone is a good poster if they have 10,000 posts and stay involved in every thread. This gives very little, if any, indication of a person's ability to carry out what they talk about. I'm not saying this happens all the time and everyone does it, I just see it from time to time and I don't get it.

[Edited by tomegun on Jun 12th, 2004 at 11:47 PM]

[mick]

Originally posted by tomegun

Mick, there are many things I could say similar to what you said but it would just turn into something nasty. For what? If someone can deny this "Internet Love", and the vast majority of posters do not do it, then I will say I was wrong. That will not happen unless someone deletes a lot of posts. See, I have asked a member of the forum if they knew someone they constantly gave kudos to and the answer was no. How can you tell if someone is a good official by what they type on this board? A lot of people know a lot of "rulebook" officials and this forum is a place some of them could hang out at. For me, many people on this board have sparked an interest in me to want to work with them or see them work. Some of this is for good reasons and some of this is for not so good reasons. However, I can not determine if someone is a good poster if they have 10,000 posts and stay involved in every thread. This gives very little, if any, indication of a person's ability to carry out what they talk about. I'm not saying this happens all the time and everyone does it, I just see it from time to time and I don't get it.

tomegun,
It doesn't matter.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, I will find one for you if you didn't delete them all

We're waiting.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, I will find one for you if you didn't delete them all

Jurassic, there is nothing wrong with saying someone is a good person or good official if you know that about them personally. Otherwise I just think you can say they are a good typist

Mick, there are many things I could say similar to what you said but it would just turn into something nasty. For what? If someone can deny this "Internet Love", and the vast majority of posters do not do it, then I will say I was wrong. That will not happen unless someone deletes a lot of posts. See, I have asked a member of the forum if they knew someone they constantly gave kudos to and the answer was no. How can you tell if someone is a good official by what they type on this board? A lot of people know a lot of "rulebook" officials and this forum is a place some of them could hang out at. For me, many people on this board have sparked an interest in me to want to work with them or see them work. Some of this is for good reasons and some of this is for not so good reasons. However, I can not determine if someone is a good poster if they have 10,000 posts and stay involved in every thread. This gives very little, if any, indication of a person's ability to carry out what they talk about. I'm not saying this happens all the time and everyone does it, I just see it from time to time and I don't get it.

You know what? I just read what's above twice, and I still don't know if I'm sure exactly of what you're talking about or where you're coming from. Internet love? And you're saying that some of us here post TOO much? And we talk NICELY TOO MUCH about other officials? WOW! Again, do you know what, Tom? If that's what's bothering you, then I think that you should mind your own damn business when it comes to other posters here talking to or about anybody or posting anything that has got absolutely nothing to do with you personally in any way, shape or form. If posters here talk to or about other posters other than you, or they like to have a little fun sometimes without flaming anybody, then that is of no concern to anybody here except maybe a moderator. And you aren't a moderator. I'll be damned if I'm gonna change the way I post because Tomegun might personally not happen to like it.

If you wanna personally decide that someone is a good poster or that you'd like to work with them, then by all means feel free to do so. That's your right- the same as it's the right of anybody that comes to this forum. Other than that, what you are doing is just petty and vindicative imo - and pointless to boot.

If I've misconstrued what your point above was, then I'll apologize. But if all you're doing is crapping on some of your fellow officials here by getting involved in something that was always basically harmless or meaningless in the first place- and wasn't related to you or had anything to do with you in any way shape or form anyway- and ALSO never involved anybody flaming you or any other official on this forum- then I really think that you should re-think where you're coming from.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
I have another topic that doesn't "teach."

"And you have every right to post that topic. And NOBODY should be telling you that you SHOULD'NT have posted it, or that you and others SHOULD'NT be discussing it!"- Jurassic Voltaire.

[tomegun]

You have misconstrued what I posted and meant. I'm sorry for that.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
You have misconstrued what I posted and meant. I'm sorry for that.

What did you mean then? I've gone back and read it again, and it still reads like a personal attack for absolutely no reason at all that I can see.