What do I tell the coach?

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[/B]

On a free throw? I honestly do believe that "diarrhea of the mouth" is a fitting and apt term for what you advocate. I'm completely with Chuck on this one. There's no need at all for you to conduct a rules clinic on every FT. [/B][/QUOTE]

To clarify, I do not advocate this for every free throw and certainly do not consider it to be a rules clinic issue. Perhaps you are not comfortable communicating or maybe you are not very good at it (no offense intended). And yes, my experienced mentors over the years passed this trait to me, good or bad, it's what I do.

[Hawks Coach]

Robmoz
I think that JR is perfectly capable of communicating. He doesn't choose to waste words.

And just out of curiosity, how do you decide when to blab and when to administer a FT?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Robmoz

On a free throw? I honestly do believe that "diarrhea of the mouth" is a fitting and apt term for what you advocate. I'm completely with Chuck on this one. There's no need at all for you to conduct a rules clinic on every FT. [/B]

To clarify, I do not advocate this for every free throw and certainly do not consider it to be a rules clinic issue. Perhaps you are not comfortable communicating or maybe you are not very good at it (no offense intended). And yes, my experienced mentors over the years passed this trait to me, good or bad, it's what I do. [/B][/QUOTE]Well, I don't advocate it on ANY free throw. And seeing that I'm responsible for training, evaluating and assigning ALL of the officials in my area, I also don't think that I do not now, or ever, have really had any problems communicating with other officials. I can also tell you that I have talked this specific subject over with many other trainers and evaluators( including quite a few at the NCAA conference level), and I have never heard a single one ever advocate what you suggest. The general mechanic in use is exactly as Chuck pointed out. The administering official simply states the # of shots to be taken.

To be honest, I really don't think that you have a clue what you are talking about( no offense intended).

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
...Your acerbic wit isn't conducive to a decent debate. Just FYI.

Acerbic, nice word, I did not intend to sound bitter though. I hope you did not mean to say FYI as opposed to IMO, afterall, a debate is about opinions or am I wrong again?

Originally posted by Snaqwells

The fact is you work for your assignors. My assignors are officials with decades of experience and built up trust. It's not "PC" to officiate the way your boss wants it done. So, you go on ahead and try to please both of the coaches and I'll try to please the guy who gives me games.

I do not try to please my assignors rather I am open to their critique and suggestions but recognize that there way is not the ONLY way and they do not dictate how I officiate. So you go ahead and please the guy that gives you games and perhaps you'll never know if your skills got you that dream assignment or your ability to please your assignor.

Not all prositutes work for money, that is what I meant by my sophmoric comment and I wanted to illustrate a point about sticking to ones ideas/methods/principles, is all.

I respect your comments Snaq, you've made your point and I've made mine.....

[footlocker]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
Because you are blatantly disregarding a rule. This is not a rule "judgment", this is a rule violation.

I'm looking for a way not to lie by saying that I didn't see it, but that also sounds reasonable to the coach. Again, I said that he approached me very respectfully.

I have a problem with the way you started your post. First, telling anyone that says they would make the call that the "post is not for them” is inappropriate. It's a forum and even if you don't, I (as well as many others) appreciate the feedback.

The reality is, you're posted this for a fight. People chimed in with reasonable responses for the question you asked. Now, if you want to argue over philosophy about whether the call should be made or not, then I ask you, why wasn't it called.

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
Explain to me how that's a judgment call, then we can go further.

Simple, when the violation occurred (as you have made clear that it did in fact occur) it was a violation. It is not called a violation until I have judged that it needs to be called.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES is a section before Rule 1 in the NFHS Rules Book. It does state that there should be no deviation from the rules. However, it also states, “The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of play” and “it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation.”

Therefore, it is judgment.

And as for your original question… per the rules, there is nothing in there that says you owe him an explanation of your judgment or application of the rules. Period.

[footlocker]

Romboz, I don't say anything except the number of throws. Reason, there may come a time later in the game where it is necessary to communicate more than that. I want those words to be heard, and not ignored.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Robmoz

On a free throw? I honestly do believe that "diarrhea of the mouth" is a fitting and apt term for what you advocate. I'm completely with Chuck on this one. There's no need at all for you to conduct a rules clinic on every FT. [/B]

To clarify, I do not advocate this for every free throw and certainly do not consider it to be a rules clinic issue. Perhaps you are not comfortable communicating or maybe you are not very good at it (no offense intended). And yes, my experienced mentors over the years passed this trait to me, good or bad, it's what I do. [/B][/QUOTE]


If you can't say your side in a few words, you will have a much bigger problem.

One, you should not feel the need to explain calls, if a coach or player asks a question, fine I'll answer. If they are making statements, I'm not going to explain ANYTHING.

Two, if you are getting into repeated "conversations" you are asking to have every call you make questioned.

Everyone has their own style, some are more talkative, some are not, but being confident, calm, and careful with your words does not make you unapproachable.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by footlocker
Romboz, I don't say anything except the number of throws. Reason, there may come a time later in the game where it is necessary to communicate more than that. I want those words to be heard, and not ignored.

Bravo, footlocker, you have offered a nice comment. TY

[Adam]

Originally posted by Robmoz

Acerbic, nice word, I did not intend to sound bitter though. I hope you did not mean to say FYI as opposed to IMO, afterall, a debate is about opinions or am I wrong again?

No, I meant what I said. When someone loads their posts with sarcasm and biting humor, it makes from some great one liners and peps up the cheerleading squad, but it doesn't do anything for making your point with those who disagree with you. That's not debating, it's a one-liner competition that really only calls for responses directed towards "yo mamma."
You said in a different post that you like debate among "peers." If that's the case, I recommend stifling the wit a bit.

Frankly, I find the use of "IMO" to be unnecessary and redundant.

[Adam]

Since they changed the rule, I've said 5 words on each free throw.

"Two (or one) shots. Let it hit."

I'll now reduce that to 2 words, since I agree that the last three are largely unnecessary unless I think the players are getting close to violations I don't want to call.

[Malcolm Tucker]

I think if you call a violation in grade 5 girls ball fine

Call it in College and you may be doing your last game

[Adam]

Originally posted by Robmoz
I do not try to please my assignors rather I am open to their critique and suggestions but recognize that there way is not the ONLY way and they do not dictate how I officiate. So you go ahead and please the guy that gives you games and perhaps you'll never know if your skills got you that dream assignment or your ability to please your assignor.

Not all prositutes work for money, that is what I meant by my sophmoric comment and I wanted to illustrate a point about sticking to ones ideas/methods/principles, is all.

My point is that if the assignors don't want me watching the toes of the stationary players on the arc during a free throw because it's not affecting the game, it's not breaking my principals to abide by that.
You go ahead and worry about your principals, and you'll likely not have to worry about figuring out how you got the good assingments. Of course, if your assignors want it done your way, then you're in the same boat you think I am.

After your explanation, your prostitutes comment comes across as more juvinile than before. You illustrated nothing with it, except.... never mind.

You assume we are deviating from our principals, but my principals are not under attack here. My principals tell me that the spirit of the rules is not violated by a player not engaged in the play here.

[icallfouls]

First of all, when it comes to assignors, if they have particular calls or mechanics they like to have employed, I suggest working by their book. If you choose not to, you are the one that must live with the potential consequences.

Second, in todays world of electronic devices, more and more plays are caught on tape, thus subject to review. Because coaches' jobs (sizeable $) are on the line each and every play they are gaining a stronger voice when it comes to how we call games. As an aside, there was an official working a game at Kansas U. Coach Williams didn't care for a call, the referee gave an explanation which was met with, "you'll never work in this conference again." BTW, the ref didn't. So to say that coaches do not dictate the way we officiate is completely off base. Every year we get a Points of Emphasis delivered to us. Points of emphasis are developed by our Rules Committees, with input from coaches and AD's.

The play in question, is by definition, a rules infraction/violation, but so too was the T called in the NC State ACC semi final game (team delaying game ...). The calling official who was going to work the final, has been around for yeeeaaaarrrrssss, got sent home early instead.

I liken this to Shaq's free throw technique, he breaks the plane every time but never gets called for it.

[TravelinMan]

Tastes great. Less filling. Tastes great. Less filling. Tastes great. Less filling. ad nauseum............................

[lrpalmer3]

footlocker, you da (wo)man. Where you been all my post?

JRut, I understand the "judgement" aspect now as well.

But here is why I started the post. I think that quick effective communication with the coach can be helpful. It isn't required or even necessary, but can be helpful.

I am soliciting advice for good things to do. I'm not soliciting advice about judgment, which is why I made the statement about excluding people from commenting. I'm wrong though, everyone can comment.

BUT, if you agree that it's a no-call, and the opposing coach asks you about it, what have you done and how did it work? I think I've got 5 suggestions. Any more?