Piece of Cake

[rainmaker]

The thread about 3-person in Washington prompts me to ask this important question. Why do people think 3-person is easier physically? I don't get it. I can't see that it's so much less distance, and it's definitely more and faster sprinting. And since 3-person is only for college here in Oregon, the floors are all 94', which means there 10 feet MORE everytime. Okay, 5 feet, but that still adds up.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker
The thread about 3-person in Washington prompts me to ask this important question. Why do people think 3-person is easier physically? I don't get it. I can't see that it's so much less distance, and it's definitely more and faster sprinting. And since 3-person is only for college here in Oregon, the floors are all 94', which means there 10 feet MORE everytime. Okay, 5 feet, but that still adds up.

The sprinting part is less frequent.
Off-ball coverage is easier/breathier than on-ball work.
Trail can work around 28'(and more) instead of top of key 19'.
Center covers 54'
Trail and Lead covers 64', instead of 73'.
mick

[JRutledge]

I think Mick nailed this on the head. You really do not have to run as hard from one point to another. Even if the game is uptempo, you have a better angle and do not need to run all the way around the court to get into position. It does not mean you should be lazy, but you can save steps. In 2 Person I am constantly moving back and forth, on the floor, off the floor to get a good position, while having to run to see the play. In 3 Person I can stay in a fixed position and look at many plays and move just a step or two to get a good position.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I think Mick nailed this on the head. You really do not have to run as hard from one point to another. Even if the game is uptempo, you have a better angle and do not need to run all the way around the court to get into position. It does not mean you should be lazy, but you can save steps. In 2 Person I am constantly moving back and forth, on the floor, off the floor to get a good position, while having to run to see the play. In 3 Person I can stay in a fixed position and look at many plays and move just a step or two to get a good position.

Peace

Rut,
Did you get the same impression after your first 3-whistle that I had after my first 3-whistle, ...that I felt I wasn't doing anything and wasn't really needed out there ?
mick

[ChuckElias]

You really do not have to run as hard from one point to another.

This is just my opinion, of course, but you should be running just as hard as in a 2-whistle game. You may not need to run as far to get into good position, but you should still be running hard. If an observer sees you jogging up the court, it could bring you trouble. For me personally, running hard helps me keep my focus.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

This is just my opinion, of course, but you should be running just as hard as in a 2-whistle game. You may not need to run as far to get into good position, but you should still be running hard. If an observer sees you jogging up the court, it could bring you trouble. For me personally, running hard helps me keep my focus.

We're not saying "Dog it" as you imply.

A slow Center is an asset to the crew.

A crew is only as good as it's Center.

I know, Chuck, that to get where you are, you are not sprinting just to sprint.

mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
I know, Chuck, that to get where you are, you are not sprinting just to sprint.

From Trail to Lead, actually, I am -- unless there's backcourt pressure and I need to give help.

Your point about the Center is well-taken, however. As I was told in camp last summer, everything between the arcs is the C's primary in transition.

[rainmaker]

Okay, well, I'm willing to back down a little after today. At the 3-person clinic today, I finally felt less physically exhausted than the two-person game I did earlier in the day. I still think new lead has to sprint more and harder than new lead in 2-person, but today I was taking off just a little tiny bit sooner and that helped a lot. Also, I was more in position at C, which I've really struggled with in the past. It really isn't as taxing as it had been before. I was never winded the whole game, which I almost always am at least once in a varsity 2-person game. And at new lead, I beat the ball every time but one.


It just does take a lot of getting used to.

[BktBallRef]

Say what you want but the Trail has to work harder on 2-man than he does in 3-man. The Trail has to close down in many situations that don't occur in 3-man. That means the Trail has to work harder to get back in the 2-man situation. Switches are longer and are required more often.

Also, in 2-man, you're going to be transitioning from T to L 50% of the time in every game. In 3-man, all things being equal, you're only going to find yourself going from T to L around 33% of the time because you're going to be at C roughly one third of the time.

Finally, the 3-man flex system is more enjoyable to work, once you get accustomed to it. And it will add years to your career.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

From Trail to Lead, actually, I am -- unless there's backcourt pressure and I need to give help.

...Don't think so, Chuck, unless we are defining our terms differently.
In my minds eye, I can see you busting/sprinting/"running hard" (100m) to beat a transition. But after a score, I see you doing a 80% run (800m) to Lead, while being attentive to the players behind you.

I imagine from time to time, we mostly all show that "unnecessary" great burst (400m) at Center, when we see only two offensive players bringing the ball up all alone. That burst shows we are willing to move, happy to move and able to move when we choose.

mick
A.T.O.M.
Associated Track Officials of Michigan

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Finally, the 3-man flex system is more enjoyable to work, once you get accustomed to it. And it will add years to your career.

I agree it's a better system, and I'm busting my tail to learn it, because I intend to use it with great regularity at some point in the future.

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Say what you want but the Trail has to work harder on 2-man than he does in 3-man. The Trail has to close down in many situations that don't occur in 3-man. That means the Trail has to work harder to get back in the 2-man situation. Switches are longer and are required more often.

Also, in 2-man, you're going to be transitioning from T to L 50% of the time in every game. In 3-man, all things being equal, you're only going to find yourself going from T to L around 33% of the time because you're going to be at C roughly one third of the time.

These are the kinds of numbers and details I was looking for in the original post. Today, for the first time, I felt less exhausted than I expected at the end of a 3-person game. I hadn't realized how fatiguing confusion and indecision was. It started to click today, and I really see a difference now, in a way that I didn't before. And it's not that I didn't trust others before, I just didn't understand the logic. You've given some very good points that I hadn't thought about in detail before.

[Nevadaref]

My take is that 3-man is much easier physically, but more taxing mentally. As an official you have to be more conscious of your primary area to make the 3-man system work well (avoid bad double whistles), you have to watch where your partners are so that you pick up the rotations, and you have to use some brain power on the switches after fouls (who is going tableside/who is staying/long switch or not).

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
My take is that 3-man is much easier physically, but more taxing mentally. As an official you have to be more conscious of your primary area to make the 3-man system work well (avoid bad double whistles), you have to watch where your partners are so that you pick up the rotations, and you have to use some brain power on the switches after fouls (who is going tableside/who is staying/long switch or not).

I find 2 man more physically tiring for the reasons Tony gave.

I also find it more mentally challenging exactly because each official has more of everything to worry about.

Once you get the system down 3 man is a joy to work.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick

...Don't think so, Chuck, unless we are defining our terms differently.
In my minds eye, I can see you busting/sprinting/"running hard" (100m) to beat a transition. But after a score, I see you doing a 80% run (800m) to Lead,

Hmmmm, I'm trying to picture myself in transition. The fact is that if I'm not needed for backcourt pressure, then my #1 responsibility is to get to the endline so that I'm ready to accept the next play. Yes, my head is turned backward to observe players. But my T has the ball, my C has midcourt and backcourt. I have maybe two players to watch. So, I'm busting my hump to get to the endline.

Am I at a 100% sprint? You're right; I'm probably not. But I guarantee that I'm over 80%. B/c with no backcourt pressure, my only job is to get to the endline. Perhaps this is a result of some of the "pro philosophy" that I've sub-consciously absorbed. But that's really the way I do it.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

B/c with no backcourt pressure, my only job is to get to the endline. Perhaps this is a result of some of the "pro philosophy" that I've sub-consciously absorbed. But that's really the way I do it.

Udaman, Chuck!
"Natural speed" according to Dan.
I bet you inherently enjoy running.
I used to enjoy it, ...in another life.
mick