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Old Thu Jan 04, 2001, 11:08am
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2 man mechanics...

On the tip, the R tosses a bannana. It is going over his head so the U doesn't really know it is a bad toss. The R hesitates before calling it back, and 1 second runs off before he blows his whistle for the rejump. Do you put the time back on the clock or just rejump with time off the clock?

I tried to find a case book example, but I couldn't find one.
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Old Thu Jan 04, 2001, 11:13am
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Reset the clock since the clock won't start until the ball is tapped, and the play SHOULD have been blown dead prior to that. Even though it wasn't, claim you lost your whistle for a moment and move on.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 09:31am
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Related question: Can the R call it back? I've tossed some real lulu-s in my day that weren't called back. Can I whistle it?
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 10:00am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Related question: Can the R call it back? I've tossed some real lulu-s in my day that weren't called back. Can I whistle it?
Yes. OFficial's Manual 212 (that's from the last edition; I hope it hasn't changed -- Basic Procedures; Two Officials; Jump Ball)
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 10:14am
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Yes, the R can call call it back, in this case he would have to because I cannot tell it was bad.

My main question is can we reset the clock.

The V officials told me I could not (I obviously thought I could) and should not have reset the clock. I cannot find a ruling either way.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 10:49am
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Lightbulb Hard to determine...

If the ball becomes live on the tap, I think it depends on when the officials deem it a bad toss. If U blows the whistle and promptly looks at the clock, SEES that a second ticks off (clock reads 7:59), I would be inclined to say that if you wanted to "split hairs", you could site the "lag" effect and that the one second is lost...if the clock says 7:58, I suppose you could put one more second on the clock and set it at 7:59...If no time runs off the clock, I'm sure no one is going to want you to run 1 second off!
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 12:09pm
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Re: Hard to determine...

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
If the ball becomes live on the tap, I think it depends on when the officials deem it a bad toss. If U blows the whistle and promptly looks at the clock, SEES that a second ticks off (clock reads 7:59), I would be inclined to say that if you wanted to "split hairs", you could site the "lag" effect and that the one second is lost...if the clock says 7:58, I suppose you could put one more second on the clock and set it at 7:59...If no time runs off the clock, I'm sure no one is going to want you to run 1 second off!
First, the ball becomes live when it leaves the R's hand(s), not on the tap.

Second, the clock starts when the ball is legally touched. I'd say if the toss is poor, the ball isn't legally touched (even though there's no team / player penalty for this illegal touch).

Third, the official's manual says, "If the toss is poor, either official shall sound the whistle immediately, signal the clock should not start and order a rejump." (emphasis added)

Fourth, if the clock is improperly started, it can be reset if the official has definite knowledge of the time involved. I'd say that's pretty easy in this situation.

Bottom line, reset the clock and rejump (and practice those tosses!)
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 12:35pm
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Thanks Bob, I didn't think I was way off. My partner double clutched, then I think he was unsure if he should call it back. By that time I had chopped the clock.

In my opinion the game should not have started, so there was no harm in putting the time back. They thought different.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2001, 01:35pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlancast
Reset the clock since the clock won't start until the ball is tapped, and the play SHOULD have been blown dead prior to that. Even though it wasn't, claim you lost your whistle for a moment and move on.
Since the R should be tossing the ball *without* the whistle
in his mouth 1 second off the clock is pretty good. (For
you newer people this is the point: when you toss keep the
whistle out of your mouth & keep it out until the players
clear you.)


I would not have put time back on in this play.

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Old Sat Jan 06, 2001, 12:13pm
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Re-jump

This reminds me of a play back in the good old days when we jumped all held balls and jump ball situations.

I was the administering official for a jump ball at A's free throw circle and I made a bad toss (the only one I have ever made in 30 yrs). Like a good official I did not have my whistle in my mouth when I made the toss. Naturally, the ball got tapped toward B's basket and the teams were off and running, I couldn't grab my whistle fast enough so the only thing I could do was yell "Wait a minute!" Even though we had not discussed it in our pregame my partner stopped play because he figured that I wanted to bring the ball back. We had a good laugh after the game about that. So just yell "Wait a minute!" and I am sure that your partner will get the game stopped for you.
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Old Sat Jan 06, 2001, 01:14pm
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Bob... Super, logical response to the question... It helped me sort things out in my "often overwhelmed" head.

Mark T... I thoroughly enjoyed your lighthearted recall of an "embarassing moment"! We are human aren't we...
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