"T" for jewelry

[rainmaker]

Saw a situation in a game I watched tonight, which I hope someone can help with. Ball sailed OOB, ref whistled, horn sounded for subs, sub came in, ref held up the ball and told sub she couldn't come in until she removed earrings. Player ran off floor, different sub came in. Opposite coach started screaming for a "T", and ref called it! She called it on the player individually, gave the shots and ball at half-court, the whole routine.

At halftime the score keeper asked me privately what the exact rule was on that. I said that I thought a T was correct and that we try to avoid it if we can, but that technically it is a technical foul. He pushed pretty hard, using the ol' "I used to be a ref and I never heard of that" thing. I stuck to my guns and he finally backed down.

But damned if I can find it in the rule book! Any suggestions?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Saw a situation in a game I watched tonight, which I hope someone can help with. Ball sailed OOB, ref whistled, horn sounded for subs, sub came in, ref held up the ball and told sub she couldn't come in until she removed earrings. Player ran off floor, different sub came in.

right here it could have been a "substitute technical" on that player if she didn't report or wasn't beckoned (NF 10-2-1 or 10-2-2)

Opposite coach started screaming for a "T", and ref called it! She called it on the player individually, gave the shots and ball at half-court, the whole routine.

that would have been correct under the rule mentioned above, but if she reported and was beckoned, no technical

[BigDave]

By rule, it is a technical foul, but it sure doesn't look good when the "T" is given after a little prodding from the opposing coach.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Saw a situation in a game I watched tonight, which I hope someone can help with. Ball sailed OOB, ref whistled, horn sounded for subs, sub came in, ref held up the ball and told sub she couldn't come in until she removed earrings. Player ran off floor, different sub came in. Opposite coach started screaming for a "T", and ref called it! She called it on the player individually, gave the shots and ball at half-court, the whole routine.

At halftime the score keeper asked me privately what the exact rule was on that. I said that I thought a T was correct and that we try to avoid it if we can, but that technically it is a technical foul. He pushed pretty hard, using the ol' "I used to be a ref and I never heard of that" thing. I stuck to my guns and he finally backed down.

But damned if I can find it in the rule book! Any suggestions?

Unlike Mark and Dave, I'll assume that you're asking about the penalty for jewelry, not the penalty for illegal substitution.

If that's the case, the official was wrong. A player wearing jewelry must leave (or not enter) until the jewelry is removed. No other penalty is assessed.

See cases 2.4.5A and 2.4.5B

[Brian Watson]

No T for jewelry. Once you determine someone has on illegal equipment you simply direct them to leave the game.

[Indy_Ref]

and I'm with his ruling. No T. Player needs to stand at the table (or leave) until she removes the jewelry.

[Gibby]

GAME INTERUPTER!!!!!!!
Not to mention the Coach now has no respect for you because he yells at you and you granted him what he wanted! You think you made that coach happy? Well if you'll do it for him you'll do it for the opposing coach also, so do you think he's gonna want to use you at home? Game interupters are such things as untucked shirts, blowing the whistle stopping the game to talk to players about physical play, etc. Use preventive officiating during dead balls, time-outs, etc. 99% of the time sub situations are our fault not the sub!!!!

[Mark Padgett]

Obviously, I thought Juulie meant the T was called on the sub, due to the grammatical structure of her paragraph. Of couse there is no technical for wearing jewelry. This should be covered in the pregame with the captains.

It is a commentary on our society that it needs to be covered in pregames for boys games, too.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Obviously, I thought Juulie meant the T was called on the sub, due to the grammatical structure of her paragraph. Of couse there is no technical for wearing jewelry. This should be covered in the pregame with the captains.

It is a commentary on our society that it needs to be covered in pregames for boys games, too.

The ACLU and PC police will be all over you when this quote gets out.

I personally think that it is a sadder commentary that this has to be said night after night. If they're told no jewelery, tuck in, etc. the first game, do they think the rules change over the next 2-3 days?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Gibby
GAME INTERUPTER!!!!!!!
Game interupters are such things as untucked shirts, blowing the whistle stopping the game to talk to players about physical play, etc. Use preventive officiating during dead balls, time-outs, etc. 99% of the time sub situations are our fault not the sub!!!!

1- Are you saying that players with untucked shirts shouldn't be asked to leave the game?

2- What idiot have you seen stop a game to warn players about physical play?

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
This should be covered in the pregame with the captains.

It is a commentary on our society that it needs to be covered in pregames for boys games, too.

I'm with Mr. Dexter on this one. Do you really warn the players about wearing jewelry during the pregame conference?

[Brian Watson]

We mention jewelry when we ask the coach about legal uni's.

[rainmaker]

Thanks for all your replies -- I was, indeed, referring to the jewelry situation, not an illegal substitution since it wasn't. (Gotta work on my English--and unlike ilya I was born and raised right here in Oregon, with English teachers on both sides of the family going way back!!)

I am surprised to hear that this particular referee was wrong about the "T" -- she is one of the best refs in our association and I would have expected her to have averything nailed down. Oh, well, this is a lesson -- no one is ever perfect.

On the other hand, I was amazed at her ability to carry this off which she did withont any protest at all from anyone. (Except for the guy who quietly came to me and asked about the rule). Even the girl who took the "T" never said a word, although she never played after being sat down like that ( I wondered whY...)

With regard to the coach who pulled the T out of her, he never said a word of complalint the rest of the game, although my partner (from the previous game--we were watching together and comparing notes) had said before the game started that we would time how long 9it took for him to be ejected -- he was apparently thrown out of several games gefore Cnristmas, and is in the process of being replaced since several parents have pulled their daughters, and the AD is disgusted with him (so I was told). But this ref managed him well, or else he has turned over a new leaf.

Next question: would it be appropriate for me to talk to here about all this? Gently let her know she was wrong about the T and also ask about her "Management Skills?"

[Camron Rust]

Perhaps, depending how much you know her, mention something like...

"Hey, on that T, was that for entering the game unbeckoned?" When she says "No, it was for the jewelry", say "Really, I tought we were only supposed to send them back to the bench for that., I guess I should look that one up again."

That will at least put the bug in her ear and she just might look it up herself. It make you look like you are trying to learn and dooesn't put her on the defensive.

She may open the door for the two of you to talk about it or even look it up.


Another option is to mention it to the Commissioner and ask if he would cover it at the next meeting (without getting into names) because you saw a T called for it.

[Paul LeBoutillier]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Next question: would it be appropriate for me to talk to here about all this? Gently let her know she was wrong about the T and also ask about her "Management Skills?"

Personally, I think so! Officials who can not be respectfully corrected by fellow officials shouldn't be on the floor. I would tell her that you conferred with some other Ref's via the Internet and found that the T was an incorrect call.

One year I was goaded into assessing a T by a coach for a girl on the other team wearing illegal head-wear. Dumbest thing I ever did in my life! (well...maybe not THE dumbest... ) The coach had her nose in a rulebook at the time and in the interest of moving the game along I complied. Man...it's hard to even admit it now! Suffice it to say I'll never let that happen again.

[williebfree]

I try to be very approachable about constuctive criticism and I would like to presume that is true of all officials. HOWEVER, I realize that ain't so in "real life".

I totally agree with Camron Rust. An innocent approach like the one he provided is very palatable and should lead to increased trust during future interactions with the other official.

Keep having fun!