It is two different situations. If the coach tells the ref and the scorer before sending the sub in that he has to add some1, then there is just one T. The way I read the rule, and how I worded my post was if the player comes to the table, is not in the book, and wants to come in. There would be two separate penalties. One has to be assessed at that moment, one can be assessed any time.

Brian --

I agree with the team T, but where do you get the player T?

The player reported and was beckoned, so it's not a violation of 10-2. The number was never changed (and, let's be clear -- that's to prevent deception), the player wasn't DQ'd, the number and uniform were legal, the player didn't leave the court, ... , so there's no violation of 10-3.

Mick --

Tony has this right. It's just one foul, whether the coach wants to add one JV player at a time or three at once. If there's an issue with eligibility, that's for the IHSA (or for you the MHSAA) to decide -- I just officiate the game.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Watson Mick -- Tony has this right. It's just one foul, whether the coach wants to add one JV player at a time or three at once. If there's an issue with eligibility, that's for the IHSA (or for you the MHSAA) to decide -- I just officiate the game.

Bob,
My JV players weren't meant to add confusion.
I was assuming they were eligible.
I was attempting to state a case for how it could happen.
Yup, I'm confused <s>again</s> yet.
mick

I would consider a player not in the book to be in violation of 10-3-3 "Illegal Number". Maybe I am taking it to literal, but if it is not in the book, is it not illegal? (I think I listed 10-3-1 by mistake in an earlier post)

Or do we consider 6-9 and 0/00 together the only definition of illegal number?

Does it help clearify Article 2 of the Penalty:

Only one foul per team regardless of the number of infractions.

to restate it as

Only one foul per team regardless of the number of players violating the rule.


For example:

One minute into the game, Team A requests three players to be added to the book, that's one (not three) Technical.

Then, five minutes later, two players' numbers need to be changed in the book. Thats one more Technical.

If either of these two rules (or any other from 10.2) is violated again later in the game, it's one additional T.

My interp, too.
 

Gary,
That works for me, but, I am thinking, that is not what is being said.
mick

10-3-1 states "A player shall not: Art. 1... Participate after changing his/her number without reporting it to the scorers and an official."

What must the player do?
He/she must report to the scorers and an official.

Why must the player report?
He/she changed his/her number.

What does it mean for a player to change his/her number?
IMHO it means that the player takes off the jersey that he/she is wearing and puts on one with a different number. It is not a coach writting the wrong number in the scorebook.

Re: My interp, too.
 

Mick

Am I confused? I thought there are two issues being discussed:

How may T's can be called under 10-2?

Is it a player T for having a number that isn't in the book?

Gary

I'm not sure anymore.
 

<hr color="red">


Gary,
I think, based on your quote directly above, with your examples, only one Team T is being called for all of the above, and for the entire game. Call the first one and pass on everything else as far as Team T goes.
I don't feel confident about it working that way.
mick

Re: I'm not sure anymore.
 

Mick

The previous post was meant to support the position that
each time a rule is violated it is one Team T regardless of the number of players involved in each violation. So, yes, you can have more than one team T in a game. But it's not based on the number of players violating the rule, but the number of different times the rule is violated.

Gary

Yes, I still agree
 

Gary,
I am still with you on this.
That is not what is being proposed, though. See below.
Help! I'm drowning!
mick

<hr color="red">

I think you're misreading (or at least reading it differently than I) the word "illegal". 3-4-3 "The following numbers are legal: ..." The implication being that it's numbers not listed that are illegal.

I'd treat 0 and 00 as duplicate (not illegal) numbers (that's why the rule was changed -- because the electronic scoreboards / stat books being used couldn't differentiate between them). The book doesn't say it, but I'd treat 1 and 01 the same way.

Gary --

The phrase is "one foul per team" not "one foul per incident (regardless of the number of infractions)". It means just that -- one per team (per game).

If they meant it the other way, they would have worded it like they did the penalty for bench personnel entering the court during a fight (10-4-4). Here, it's one indirect per occurence -- if there are two fights, it's two indirects.

Re: Yes, I still agree
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[QUOTE]

Gary,
I am still with you on this.
That is not what is being proposed, though. See below.
Help! I'm drowning!
mick

Guess I need to spend more time reading. I now agree with TH and disagree with Rut. Look at 3.2.2:

"Art 2... After the time limit specified in Article 1, a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed (See 10-1-1, 2 Peanalty):
a. Changing a designated starter...
b. Adding a name to the squad list.
c. Requiring the scorer to change a squad member's or player's number in the scorebook.
d. Requiring a player to change to the number in the scorebook.
e. Having identical numbers on squad members and/or players."

Isn't it nice when the Case Book actually answers things for us...once we call an administrative T on a team for having to have someone's number changed in the book, that's it, can't call any more T's for that...as stated before, see Case Book 3.2.2A...one easy way out of that is to take a minute after the T is called and have the scorer check all #'s and names for both teams to make sure there are no more discrepancies...