That's not my call

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Chuck -- I was figuring that the ball went out on the endline, but the last touch was clear back above the key, maybe. Eric was trail and saw the last touch clearly, partner couldn't possibly have.

Certainly possible, Juulie. But even if that's the way it happened, it was still Eric's partner's call to make. If Eric was sure that the call was incorrect, then he can go to the partner and tell him what he saw. But I hope he didn't make this OOB call (if that's even what it was) from the Trail position, and then get upset when his partner correctly made the call on his own line.

Eric, care to shed some light?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Certainly possible, Juulie. But even if that's the way it happened, it was still Eric's partner's call to make. If Eric was sure that the call was incorrect, then he can go to the partner and tell him what he saw. But I hope he didn't make this OOB call (if that's even what it was) from the Trail position, and then get upset when his partner correctly made the call on his own line.

Eric, care to shed some light?

You're right, of course. I was thinking of my own experience where I would reflexively make a call that was technically not mine. Eric's situation is the hardest to get right, in my opinion -- it's completely anti-instinctive. Assuming the play was as you and I have been discussing it.

[Adam]

Maybe Eric's play happened on T's sideline by the baseline (right on the corner?) in a two-whistle game.

[footlocker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

And most partners won't offer unsolicited help, either. I mean, they will only make a suggestion if they are asked. What this usually means is that they respect the dignity of the other ref and don't want to belittle their partner or betray their partner's trust by causing others to question his judgment

I disagree Juulie. I will offer unsolicited help if, and only if, I am absolutely, positively certain that I am right. If I believe the call is wrong, its not enough. Furthermore, it is the goal of my partner and myself to get the call right. I would betray my partner’s trust if I was absolutely certain of a call that he made was wrong (I speaking of OOB here, I'd never offer an opinion on a foul/violation call) and I kept my mouth shut. I'll let him know what I saw. If I offer that, then he knows I am sure without a doubt. That is the level of trust most officials I know work with.

BTW, this happens maybe once every 3-5 games.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

Remember that the partner is going to be wrong as often as the calling official is. Just because the partner sees it going in your favor, doesn't make him smarter! (insert cute smilie here)

Again, seeing it go the other way and being sure enough to say something are very different. If my partner interjects with some information, it's right and I want to hear it.

Originally posted by TigerBball
So, I will remain calm on the sidelines knowing I don't know it all. I bet you wish all coaches were as mild mannered as me.

You mean "as mild mannered as I."

[footlocker]

I had one last weekend. I was Trail and the Lead official blew the whistle for an OOB on his sideline. The ball was traveling away from Lead and since I was properly watching my area, I saw the touch by team A. He called it the way he saw it. I came in and asked him if he wanted any other information. Wisely, he asked me if it was off team A. I told him it was, so he signaled in the other direction. Parents started to yell and the Team A coach said, "get back on D, it was a good call."

Regardless of what A-coach or A-parents said, we got it right and handled it right.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by footlocker
if I was absolutely certain of a call that he made was wrong (I speaking of OOB here,

BTW, this happens maybe once every 3-5 games.

You need better partners.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by footlocker
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

And most partners won't offer unsolicited help, either. I mean, they will only make a suggestion if they are asked. What this usually means is that they respect the dignity of the other ref and don't want to belittle their partner or betray their partner's trust by causing others to question his judgment

I disagree Juulie. I will offer unsolicited help if, and only if, I am absolutely, positively certain that I am right. If I believe the call is wrong, its not enough. Furthermore, it is the goal of my partner and myself to get the call right. I would betray my partner’s trust if I was absolutely certain of a call that he made was wrong (I speaking of OOB here, I'd never offer an opinion on a foul/violation call) and I kept my mouth shut. I'll let him know what I saw. If I offer that, then he knows I am sure without a doubt. That is the level of trust most officials I know work with.

BTW, this happens maybe once every 3-5 games.

Originally posted by rainmaker

Again, seeing it go the other way and being sure enough to say something are very different. If my partner interjects with some information, it's right and I want to hear it.

You mean "as mild mannered as I."

While I agree with what you say I don't think we should limit ourselves to offering new information to when we are absolutely certain we are right. If you think you saw something your partner did not then go tell him. Only takes a second or 2.

[offball]

Hello everyone,
First post to this forum... thought this was as good a topic as any to weigh in on. I work out of a relatively small pool (90% of assignments with same 10 people) in Montana, as such, my knowledge of my partners is thorough and comfort level is pretty high. One of the "understandings" we have is that... if your partner comes over to you and asks "...did you get a good look at that?" That means, there is a pretty good chance that you may have missed something and probably should change it if you have "any" doubt. Basically what I am getting at...is there isn't all that many times (if any?) when you should step in on judgement calls, but when you do, you had better be right. Now, rules interpretations, that is a different story.

In any case, I look forward to future discussions in this forum.

[mick]

Originally posted by offball
Hello everyone,
First post to this forum... thought this was as good a topic as any to weigh in on. I work out of a relatively small pool (90% of assignments with same 10 people) in Montana, as such, my knowledge of my partners is thorough and comfort level is pretty high. One of the "understandings" we have is that... if your partner comes over to you and asks "...did you get a good look at that?" That means, there is a pretty good chance that you may have missed something and probably should change it if you have "any" doubt. Basically what I am getting at...is there isn't all that many times (if any?) when you should step in on judgement calls, but when you do, you had better be right. Now, rules interpretations, that is a different story.

In any case, I look forward to future discussions in this forum.

offball,
Welcome here.
If my partner comes to me, changing my call is automatic.
If we discuss it, it'll be later... and in private.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
offball,
Welcome here.
If my partner comes to me, changing my call is automatic.
If we discuss it, it'll be later... and in private.

ditto, 100%.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by footlocker

You mean "as mild mannered as I."

No, I believe "me" is correct.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, I believe "me" is correct.

[Adam]

Originally posted by mick

Nope, it's "as mild mannered as I." The best way to tell is to realize this is really a truncated sentence. If you finish it, it would be "As mild mannered as I am." "As mild mannered as me is" would sound silly.