Baylor-Tennessee (part 2) ESPN Article

[Judge]

ok I give up, just suffice to say the call should not have been whistled, and any referee who thinks it should have well that is part of the problem.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Judge
ok I give up, just suffice to say the call should not have been whistled, and any referee who thinks it should have well that is part of the problem.

Aw no, don't leave yet, Judge. Did those bad ol' referees and coaches really try to confuse you by quoting all those nasty rules to you, instead of using newspapers? They're meanies, aren't they? Please stick around. You don't know how much you really brighten up a rainy day. You made me laugh, anyway. Please don't go. What can we do to make you stay? I know- we'll declare Baylor the national champion of the whole world. And then we'll have those nasty officials shot! Horse-whipping is too good for 'em, I tell ya!

And another dipsh*t exits, stage left.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by Judge
ok I give up, just suffice to say the call should not have been whistled, and any referee who thinks it should have well that is part of the problem.

We missed a chance at a huge upset this year, when trailing by 2 with 25 seconds left, we were called for an illegal screen. I was a lot more upset about the fact that the official thought it was a foul (he used the word "borderline" in a discussion we had after the game) than I was about the time remaining. But, could you tell me, should the officials be passing on calls with 25 seconds left? What about 11 seconds? How about 4.7 seconds? Maybe 1.6? Or just 0.2? I need to know if this guy that worked our game is part of the problem--my official rating sheet is due next week!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
[/B]

We missed a chance at a huge upset this year, when trailing by 2 with 25 seconds left, we were called for an illegal screen. I was a lot more upset about the fact that the official thought it was a foul (he used the word "borderline" in a discussion we had after the game) than I was about the time remaining.

[/B][/QUOTE]If that "borderline" illegal screen call wasn't called consistently the whole game, then you probably had the right to squawk a little. That's what fans don't understand. There's a big difference between calling something (like contact) consistently the whole game, and calling something at the end of the game that they may have been letting go all game. Big, big difference.

[N_Stripes]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

We missed a chance at a huge upset this year, when trailing by 2 with 25 seconds left, we were called for an illegal screen. I was a lot more upset about the fact that the official thought it was a foul (he used the word "borderline" in a discussion we had after the game) than I was about the time remaining. But, could you tell me, should the officials be passing on calls with 25 seconds left? What about 11 seconds? How about 4.7 seconds? Maybe 1.6? Or just 0.2? I need to know if this guy that worked our game is part of the problem--my official rating sheet is due next week! [/B]

I have been reading this thread with much interest but have refrained from comment as I did not see the play in question. You however have asked for an opinion that I just happen to have.

My intentions are to call the same game for 40 minutes. What is a foul at .2 seconds into the game, is a foul with .2 seconds remaining. I do not base ALL my calls on Advantage vs. Disadvantage as I feel there are fouls and violations that put no one at a disadvantage but should be called to maintain the integrity of the game and to keep many games from possibly slipping out of control. This is not to say that I do not agree with the Advantage vs. Disadvantage procedure, I just do not feel that it is an "all inclusive" process.

As for the "late in the game" calls. Whomever decided that officials should pass on calls late in the game has done the profession an injustice. IMHO, if you pass on a call just because of the time remaining or the score of the contest, you have jeopardized your integrity. I am not talking about 10 year old rec. ball, but HS and NCAA. As an official, I want to follow the rules; that covers my a$$ if something happens or if someone gets hurt.

Pat Summit, like many class act coaches, would rather not win a game on a controversial call with .2 seconds remaining in a tie game. But had she been down by one and the officials decided to "pass" on the call because it was "late in the game"; what would your reply be to her when she asks "why you did not call the foul?"
"Uhhh, well coach, you see, we as officials just pass on calls when there is less than .3 seconds left because you can't attempt a try!"

I hope you enjoyed your final game in the big leagues ref!



[Edited by N_Stripes on Apr 1st, 2004 at 08:39 AM]

[Bart Tyson]

[QUOTE]
As for the "late in the game" calls. Whomever decided that officials should pass on calls late in the game has done the profession an injustice. IMHO, if you pass on a call just because of the time remaining or the score of the contest, you have jeopardized your integrity. I am not talking about 10 year old rec. ball, but HS and NCAA. As an official, I want to follow the rules; that covers my a$$ if something happens or if someone gets hurt.
QUOTE]

I have never heard anyone suggust to pass on calls late in the close game. I have heard, and support the idea of communicating as partners the game situation, stay focused, be in good position to see the whole play. Lets make sure its a good call or no call.

The difference is game management. I try not to call borderline fouls. Early or late I want to be able to say to myself, "yep, thats a foul", beep. Having said that, there are times I may call a borderline foul early in the game, depending on the situation. I'm not going to call a borderling foul late in close game.

[Judge]

ok I woul dnot have called the foul becase it was a borderline foul and yes you better be dammn sure you have a for sure foul if youy are going to call it that will put a team on the line with no time left.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Judge
ok I woul dnot have called the foul becase it was a borderline foul and yes you better be dammn sure you have a for sure foul if youy are going to call it that will put a team on the line with no time left.

I am not a ref, have no reason to defend them. I am not a Tennessee fan, no reason to want a call to go their way. I do not think it was borderline. I do think it could have been passed on if the ref knew the exact time, which he really wouldn't when he is reffing the game - he would only know that it was close to over. So to suggest the ref was so unbelievably wrong is itself unbelievably wrong, especially if you are really a ref yourself. The ref made a call that some support, and some disagree with - but the ref was not so ar over the line as you would have it.

[just another ref]

I personally have been guilty of not making calls because
"it's just about over." But this was at the end of jr. high
games with large point differentials. Even in these cases
when you start not calling things invariably there is more time left than you thought. When this happens you let another thing go because you let the first thing go and, by golly, those last 3 or 4 seconds can become an eternity.
With this in mind is it not evident that a "no whistle right at the buzzer" philosophy is unacceptable in any close game, let alone in a game of this magnitude? I say that if this collision goes without a call and it turns out to be at the 00:01.2 mark rather than at the 00:00.2 mark we would have heard an equal or even greater reaction from the Tennessee side.

[Adam]

justanotherref, after having seen the play, I have finally concluded that judge is nothing but a Texas-boy Baylor fan. I'm sure it's just a conspiracy of liberal refs and NCAA brass to get back at the state of Texas for giving us our illustrious president.

[dblref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Yeah! What Juulie said...and the Yankees suck. There, I feel better now...

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Don't take it out on the Yankees because your Mariners are so bad. Remember, there is room for you on the Yankee bandwagon. There is even a 12-step program available to help you get over your feeling of inadequacy for supporting the Mariners.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Where on earth did you get that understanding? Anything to do with the clock is relevant. [/B]

Please cite the NCAA rule that would allow them to go to the monitor to determine IF the foul occurred before time expired (not to be confused with how much time should be on the clock after the ball became dead).