Teddy V was correct - Page 3

redoubtable1 · #31 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:10pm

Dear Jurassic,
I'm not surprised. It's funny, though. The Dallas Morning News is the only news agency to quote Mr. Valentine as using this expletive. CBS Sports not only didn't, they didn't even report this as a story on Saturday or Sunday. The AP didn't and of course, none of the Ohio papers. Only a newspaper from Texas, covering a Texas team that played the entire game as if the officials owed them a trip to the the Final Four. Xavier not only outplayed and outcoached Texas but the clearly wanted the game more. The better team won. As far as the Dallas Morning News is concerned, the fact that no other major media outlet has picked up this story leads me to believe that this is a non-story. More irresponsible "journalism." Sounds to me like they were trying to put a shine on Texas' terrible performance.

BktBallRef · #32 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:14pm

Barnes was a whinyass when he was at Clemson. He hasn't changed since he got to Texas. I'm glad the ACC is rid of him.

redoubtable1 · #33 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:22pm

If Teddy V said it, there's still a problem here. Mouton has the burden of proving that Teddy V said it. Who's his witness? A biased, hometown newspaper. It would be one thing if the AP had picked this up. If this is pressed, there must be an investigation but without more corroboration you basically have Mouton's word against Valentine's word.

BktBallRef · #34 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:25pm

An investigation?

You're kidding, right?

redoubtable1 · #35 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:34pm

Even if there is an investigation, which I wouldn't condone on Mouton's word alone, without further corroboration, Valentine shouldn't be held accountable for this. He did his job. I just looked up his record yesterday. 6 Final Fours, 3 National championship games and suddenly now, he's cursing out players? No, I don't believe it. Give me some better evidence than two hometown papers and Mouton.

BktBallRef · #36 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 05:40pm

Even if he said, "Shut the _ _ _ _ up, you'e not in the NBA!" that's certainly not "cursing out players."

I don't call D1 but I do know that there's a lot of profanity on the floor. Beyond not knowing if this is true or not, we also don't know what Mouton said to provoke whatever response was made. My guess is that Mr. Mouton did not ask, "Mr. Referee sir, could you please tell me what I did to get a foul?" I'm thinking more along the lines of "That's bull$hit! I didn't touch him!"

dblref · #37 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
The Dallas Morning News quoted him as saying "Shut the [expletive] up, you're not in the NBA." You can read the article here http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....c53d278d.html.

Unless I misread the article, it doesn't say anything about what Valentine said to Mouton.

BktBallRef · #38 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 07:00pm

You misread.

Judge Roy · #39 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 08:34pm

Nor should I be at this age.

I was a high school basketball official years ago for a short while.

I was a soccer official for a few years after I stopped coaching soccer at a very competitive level.

The other officials thought I was crazy because I never went out and got myself a yellow card or a red card.

I was also statewide senior discplinary administrator in soccer.

A player struck an official and torn his uniform. The report came to me. I banned the player for life and sent his card to Zurich, Swirzerland (FIFA Headquarters) - lifetime worldwide ban.

The next day the high school where he coached called me and asked if I had banned him. I said yes, no one assaults an official and ever participates in the game again. They fired him that afternoon.

So, I am no ref hater, though there are some I really dislike and think should not keep their striped shirt. I'd imagine that no one you know ever banned a player world wide for life for his conduct regarding a referee.

I am one concerned that the small number of bad people who happen to be referees may end up ruining the game for everyone.

If you haven't MEMORIZED the University of Michigan study on officials gambling, you should. It is a serious potential threat to sports - human frailities being human frailities.

There is a lot that could be done to make officiating better for all - officials included - but FIRST we must be sure there is no monkey business going on.

Don't forget, 14 NBA officls were indicted and found guilty of tax evasion in their official capacities. You don't acquire sainthood when you put that whistle in your mouth.

[Edited by Judge Roy on Mar 28th, 2004 at 07:38 PM]

JRutledge · #40 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 08:45pm

What does any of that have to do with the fact you know nothing about rule one?

And the Michigan Study had to deal with all the gambling, not betting on games.

The NBA officials were accused of tax evasion for turning in first class airline tickets to coach class so they could pocket the extra money. They did not report the extra income to the IRS and that is what got them in trouble. No different than a business man that does the same thing and does not report the income. It has nothing to do with gambling. But if that is your concern, what about all the players and coaches that go to Casinos and do other things that have been proven. I can think of a few point shaving scandals and officials were not involved. Arizona State, Northwestern to name a few. But then again, you are worried about officials and you know nothing about them. Stick to soccer, most of us hate soccer in the first place.

Peace

BktBallRef · #41 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 08:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge Roy
Nor should I be at this age.

I was a high school basketball official years ago for a short while.

I was a soccer official for a few years after I stopped coaching soccer at a very competitive level.

So you're not an official.
That certainly sounds like an official to me.

If you're not anymore, I for one am glad.

ShadowStripes · #42 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 09:32pm

Again, I think Teddy, who is otherwise a solid official, helps get himself in these situations. Call the first T and walk away, even force a switch away from the table if you need to get away. In the worst case scenario, another partner can give T #2. Let's not toss a guy with a double T with a few seconds left on the clock unless it's ridiculous behavior. Of course, none of us know the details of the conversation between Barnes and Valentine, but I'm reasonably confident most other top flight officials wouldn't have handled it this way. That kind of stuff puts a damper on what was a great ball game. The no call that set Barnes off was a good no call and Barnes sort of intimated after the game that he might think differently after a review of the replay. As an official, know the situation and learn to listen to some music in your head instead of a frustrated losing coach in the final seconds of an elimination tournament game. I think you'll earn far more respect from all parties involved afterwards.

gostars · #43 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 09:34pm

According to Knight-Rider TWO Texas player besides Mouton reported what Valentine said. The story was also reported by the Houston Chronicle, Knight-Rider Newspapers, and the San Antonio Courier Express.

Rich · #44 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 09:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
According to Knight-Rider TWO Texas player besides Mouton reported what Valentine said. The story was also reported by the Houston Chronicle, Knight-Rider Newspapers, and the San Antonio Courier Express.

Any papers OUTSIDE of Texas?

I still haven't seen this on ESPN, CBS, or anywhere else but these few TEXAS newspapers. Do you not think if there was anything to this that ESPN would be all over it?

Jurassic Referee · #45 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 28, 2004, 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Stick to soccer, most of us hate soccer in the first place.

Want me to describe a soccer game for you? Ninety minutes of complete boredom, that's what it is. They won't let you use your hands either, for Heaven's sake! That's un-American as far as I'm concerned. Whoever heard of any game where you can't use your hands? Football,baseball, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, field hockey, softball, cricket,polo, marriage, karate and kung fu and all that Eastern sh*t--- you name it-- you're allowed to use your hands. Oh no, not soccer though. And you hardly ever see anybody score. What's up with that? And when a miracle occurs and someone does score, whatinthehell do you see? The goober that scored runs around the stadium three times with his teammates chasing him, takes off his clothes and throws them up in the air, and then falls flat on his face kicking and screaming. His teammates then catch up to him, fall on top of him, and take turns screwing him dog-style. Makes you sick to watch it!

Soccer, BAH!