The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 12:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 66
I am a new official and am trying to gain on court experience the best way I can. During the summer there are many AAU tournaments in the area and they are needing officials very badly, however some "veterens" in my association frown upon working these events. I am looking for experience but I do not want to hurt my "learning the right way" because most tournaments have some slight rule changes and the players and coaches tend to act up more.


Do you think this is a good experience for me or am I just wasting my time?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 12:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 121
Getting on the court in the begining is the most important thing. You should be able to deal with the minor rule changes. Just remember to work on somthing during the games (mechanics, positioning.. etc). This will get you more comfortable on the floor and earn some extra money in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 12:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 97
It can be a very good experience for the young official but you have understand what you're trying to get out of it. Depending on the level, you will see some very good play. It should help your judgement. Don't use at your primary rules review. Some guys don't switch on fouls, but don't worry about that kind of stuff. Work on your foul calling selectivity, your positioning to make a call, your judgement, etc. Those kind of things.

Do the coaches and players act up? They will if you let them. Work on your people skills, dealing with players and coaches. Typically, same rules that apply for HS players and coaches (as far as tauting, sportsmanship, etc) apply in these AAU games. Address it and deal with it accordingly. Find out what the AAU tournament or site director expects. They don't want to deal with the coaches, so if you deal with it and keep them under control (remember a T is just another foul and a tool in our bag) the admistration don't have to do.

Always work on your professionalism on the foul. How you look, how you run, the kind of impression you make.

You'll get out of it what you put into it and work on.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 03:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
I have coached a coupla hundred AAU games, seen several hundred more, and have personally been around less than 5 games that were out of control. And I think that if the refs had addressed it, it could have been mitigated.

That said, AAU is less closely regulated than HS and the risk is slightly higher. And my experience is girls not boys, so other results may vary. And my experience is mainly Mid Atlantic (MD, DC, VA, PA), went to YBOA nationals last year and saw more variety. Depending on where you are, you may see different things. But you will see the best players in an age group, get used to fast paced ball that is played full court and physical. You will have to beon your toes, and I think you can benefit much more from these games than any games other than school leagues.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 05:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
The way to get better is to practice, practice, practice. I think rec/AAU/church ball is a good place to get that practice. It's a good place to work on your judgement. It's a good place to learn game management skills. It's a good place to learn to handle the abnormal things that happen infrequently in high school ball, and daily in rec ball. To the full extent possible, I would encourage you to work on your mechanics. You may have to compromise on rotations, but work on everything else (if you can get your partner to agree, work on rotations too).

However, one of my mentors pointed out to me that there will come a time when it'll be time to stop working those level of games because it'll start to negatively impact your game at higher levels. So don't be too hard on the vets that won't work them, they've moved on and left you a great opportunity to practice.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 05:45pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by ump76
Do you think this is a good experience for me or am I just wasting my time?
Being on the court is going to be good. But when the rules are drasitically different than what you will be doing during the regular season, then you might take some of what happens with a grain of salt. The best thing that will happen will be that you will be able to see more plays. But the way the coaches act and sometimes the players, will really put an hinderance on what you can truely learn in my opinion. Because things are allowed in these games you will never see anywhere else.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 08:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
There is no substitute for experience so get as many games as you can. Rec leagues can often have "interesting" coaches... some of them have never heard of the word "sportsmanship." But with the right attitude, you can use those excitable coaches to work on your game management skills. When you can settle down a raving lunatic 6th grade coach who thinks he is Bobby Knight, you've really done something! :-)

Z
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 09:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
I have coached a coupla hundred AAU games, seen several hundred more, and have personally been around less than 5 games that were out of control. And I think that if the refs had addressed it, it could have been mitigated.

That said, AAU is less closely regulated than HS and the risk is slightly higher. And my experience is girls not boys, so other results may vary. And my experience is mainly Mid Atlantic (MD, DC, VA, PA), went to YBOA nationals last year and saw more variety. Depending on where you are, you may see different things. But you will see the best players in an age group, get used to fast paced ball that is played full court and physical. You will have to beon your toes, and I think you can benefit much more from these games than any games other than school leagues.
Hawks Coach,
Do you use NCAA womens' rules for your AAU games? FTs, Ts, coaching box (28ft, no loss for a T), no PC under the basket, etc.?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 09:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
ump76--

You should work as many games as you can. If anyone questions this practice to your face, tell them you're still working on "getting a good angle" and this is a chance to increase that skill. Or that you're trying to improve your physical conditioning, so that you can move up a level next fall. Or something that shows you're trying to improve, and not just being a hack. If they say they don't think this will help, ask what you should be doing instead. Listen and thank them. Then do what seems the most likely to help. Or ask them to come to an AAU game or two and make suggestions. In other words, give them respect and take what they have to give that seems useful, but don't necessarily take only one point of view.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 10:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Hawks Coach,
Do you use NCAA womens' rules for your AAU games? FTs, Ts, coaching box (28ft, no loss for a T), no PC under the basket, etc.? [/B]
I don't tend to leave the normal box, and if I briefly jump down the line to coach, it is brief and I am back. I stay out of the scorers way so i don't push it to half court. Never seen the rules specifically modified for 28 feet, never seen anybody worry about the box except when coach is causing a problem.

Never received direct T in an AAU game, don't know if they would have seatbelted me or not (and I do remember the last direct T I saw in PA last year, can't remember if she was seatbelted). Didn't know that no PC under basket was a rule in NCAA womens, haven't seen it called that way. Ts are not POI in my experience, and that is the NCAA rule. Haven't seen a team control foul called yet, but it is fairly new. Doubt that we will use it.

We generally just go with the NCAA women on FT lineup and entering lane on release (except shooter and anybody outside 3 point line). When we use shot clock (AAU national qualifiers and nationals), we use the NCAA women's 30 sec clock, no 10 sec in b/c (stupid rule, IMO), and closely guarded anywhere on the court, but only while holding the ball (even more stupid rule, IMO).
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 10:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
This will NOT hurt you in my area

I watched a WCAC (THE conference in the DC area) girls varsity ref do girls AAU games this weekend. I expect I will see him in the WCAC again next winter. Other than a high powered summer league, I don't know where you will find this pace of play and skill level outside the top HS leagues or college. WCAC had the number 1 girls HS team in America, and was beaten in the WCAC final by a team with a freshman starter who cut her teeth (and continues to excel) in AAU. The other freshman regular on that team is also on her AAU team.

jrut is right that you will see things here that you won't in some school leagues - cause this is where the players are that can do those things, at least in my area

If you can't get WCAC (or your local equivalent) and want great players, AAU is the place to see and ref them.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 23, 2004, 11:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
The WCAC is great. That is the best HS league that I have worked to date. When I was in DC, my first years I was told to work as many summer tournaments as possible. The assigner really did me a favor and would put me with some of his top officials (like the guys that Hawks Coach mentioned who work AAU in the summer and the top WCAC games in the winter) in challenging AAU summer games so that I could learn from them. As a result I moved up quickly.

Now to the AAU rules: Hawks Coach here are two links on the web that I have found:

http://www.aausports.org/exec/aau/Gi...blicationID=12
http://www.aausports.org/exec/aau/ha...comp_rules.pdf

The first link has the heading: "2004 AAU Girls Basketball Handbook" at the top of the page, and if you click on competition rules, it will take you to the second link I gave, which is a pdf file. The first sentence there states, "The official rules for AAU Girls' Basketball are the 2002-2003 NCAA Women's Basketball rules."

To me this means that you get the 28' coaching area (all the way to the end line and you don't have to sit if you get T'd), team control fouls should be used, T's should be POI, FT line-up should have the bottom space empty and the players on the lane can go on the release.

And the no PC under the basket rule is definitely a Women's NCAA rule. The only case in which it doesn't apply is on a drive that comes in parallel to the end line. The exact citation is 4-8-1 AR 7 on page 58 of the 2003 book. http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...ball_rules.pdf
Also read Appendix III Section 9 part b. It gives a very detailed description with the exception.

If I did these games, I would also switch tableside in a 3 whistle crew.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Mar 23rd, 2004 at 10:53 PM]
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 24, 2004, 08:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
Just remember that "AAU tournaments" are not the same as AAU nationals. At nationals, they follow the NCAA rules. At local, AAU club sponsored tournaments, clubsy modify rules and normally only adopt the FT rules (as well as changing the number/length of TOs, length of half, clock stoppages, etc). Where shot clocks are available and clubs elect to use them, shot clocks will follow NCAA womens rules.

But even in our national qualifiers in the PV region, it is only the medal rounds of the qualifiers that have shot clocks, and other modifications are not explicitly adopted. The powers that be always address the lane line-up/release and the shot clock/closely guarded rules.

Bottom line, if doing an "AAU tournament," refer to the modifications for that tournament, which are usually provided to the scorer's table. As for seatbelts and boxes, if they don't say they are doing NF rules, I would probably let it go. It isn't an argument you need to have.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 24, 2004, 08:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 199
Send a message via AIM to CYO Butch
Out of control coaches

The only really out of control coach I ever saw was at a girls AAU tournament in Northern VA. One coach received 3 (yes three!) direct technicals and was told he was ejected. He remained standing in front of his bench, refusing to leave. Game management refused to force him out physically (which is what it would have taken) and refused to allow a forfeit as this coach threatened to pull all the teams from his program from all future tounaments hosted by these organizers. It was also clear that the officials would not get paid if they refused to continue.
This was a really ugly episode that drew all the spectators from all four courts in the gym. When the opponents won the game, everyone in the stands cheered. The crazy coach tried to follow the officials off the court screaming at them, but he was stopped by a couple of rent-a-cops.
I don't think the poor guys working the game had a very good time. I don't know what else they could have done, but they acted very professionally the whole time. My guess is that they decided that that was the last time they would work a tournament with a team entered by that coach.
By the way, I did not have a team in the tournment. I was just watching a girl I used to coach whose parents are close friends. Her team was in a different bracket and didn't have to play that other team, although they had come across them before.
This is the only time in hundreds of games that I have ever seen things out of control. I've never seen fights, and I've never seen real personal abuse directed at officials. What I have seen is a trace of attitude that the teams have paid good money to be there, so they may feel they can stretch things a bit, and that the organizers want to make sure that teams get their moneys' worth so that they will particpate in future events. I don't think this means that officiating gets abused, or that it is not good work for an official who is learning. Just remember that this is a "pay to play" environment with a lot of passion for winning and not many organizational checks on people who may push the limits.
__________________
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!
- Friedrich Nietzsche -
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 24, 2004, 08:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
CYO
I am not sure that continuing the game is worth the future paychecks. And the organizers are spineless if they wouldn't bounce the coach. They should have told the coach that he could leave or forfeit. I surely hope that nobody in my organization would put potential future tournament registrations against backing the referees they have hired.

I happen to know of a private gym owner who banned a team from his gym, and the tournament he was hosting gave the team a one-year ban from participation - they won the championship and won't be allowed to participate this year.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1