Traveling?

[Todd VandenAkker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The number of hands used to throw the pass doesn't have anything to do with it. When she starts the dribble, it doesn't matter if she bats or tosses it to the floor with one hand or two.

The original post indicated the player is dribbling, then tries to make the pass. That being the case, the number of hands used to throw the pass IS relevant. If he uses one hand to "clumbsily" make the pass, then it may be possible for him to retrieve the ball or even continue the dribble without violating, as long as the ball did not come to rest in his hand. If using two hands, then the dribble has immediately ended, in which case releasing the ball on an ill-fated pass attempt and then retrieving it would be considered a double dribble (not a travel, though the result is the same). It cannot be considered a fumble in this situation, as someone else correctly noted, since the ball was released on purpose.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker ...since the ball was released on purpose. [/B]

This is why I would call double (illegal) dribble! The player's INTENT was to end the dribble and pass the ball. To pick it back up, i.e. to catch his own pass, to me, would warrant a double dribble call. I would have to see it to determine absolutely what I would call...if I'd call anything.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker


The original post indicated the player is dribbling, then tries to make the pass. That being the case, the number of hands used to throw the pass IS relevant. If he uses one hand to "clumbsily" make the pass, then it may be possible for him to retrieve the ball or even continue the dribble without violating, as long as the ball did not come to rest in his hand.

Possible but not likely. In the case you describe, you might have a bat but 99% of the time the dribble would end.

[Todd VandenAkker]

True, it wouldn't happen very often. But then, most or at least many of the situations we discuss here are relatively infrequent occurences, which are the types of situations we need to be prepared for. The common situations are usually self-evident or so well-learned that we hardly have to think about them to make the right call.

[mick]

Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker

It cannot be considered a fumble in this situation, as someone else correctly noted, since the ball was released on purpose. [/B]

Todd,
This interests me.
Is there any case, in your mind, where a player may fumble a pass and retrieve it legally? Perhaps, only if a defender strikes the ball, it is legal to retrieve?
mick

[Todd VandenAkker]

I suppose you'd have to see it to decide, Mick, but if someone attempted a pass that he just didn't get much on or it didn't go the right direction, I'd be hard pressed to rule that a fumble. I'd probably consider it a screwed up pass, and not allow him to retrieve it. Now, if in my judgment he fumbled the ball accidentally BEFORE he could attempt the actual pass (let's assume a two-handed effort), I could see letting him regain control without penalty, but not dribble again. And yes, if a defender deflects or gets a hand on the muffed pass, then of course the player can try to get it back and do whatever he wants with it.

[mick]

Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
I suppose you'd have to see it to decide, Mick, but if someone attempted a pass that he just didn't get much on or it didn't go the right direction, I'd be hard pressed to rule that a fumble. I'd probably consider it a screwed up pass, and not allow him to retrieve it. Now, if in my judgment he fumbled the ball accidentally BEFORE he could attempt the actual pass (let's assume a two-handed effort), I could see letting him regain control without penalty, but not dribble again. And yes, if a defender deflects or gets a hand on the muffed pass, then of course the player can try to get it back and do whatever he wants with it.

Thanks Todd,
That makes sense to me.
I was afraid I was out to lunch, but it was just breakfast.
mick