Traveling?

[Ralph Stubenthal]

A1 is dribbling down the court and clumbsily attempts to pass the ball. He makes a bad pass and the ball bounces once and he catches it. Travel or not? What if the ball bounced twice? Would it matter if the attempted pass was made with 1 hand instead of 2?
Officiating is a tough business. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
A1 is dribbling down the court and clumbsily attempts to pass the ball. He makes a bad pass and the ball bounces once and he catches it. Travel or not? What if the ball bounced twice? Would it matter if the attempted pass was made with 1 hand instead of 2?

This is not traveling. It's not a double dribble. It's not anything. It's just a fumble.

You cannot travel unless you are holding the ball. The one exception is a player who tosses the ball into the air, runs, and catches it. And, of course, i'm referring to a pass, not a try.

Another myth dispelled.

[Indy_Ref]

If he/she retrieves the ball AND dribbles again, it's double-dribble...but simply retrieving it is okay as long as it clearly was a FUMBLED pass. Rule of thumb: A player can fumble-dribble-fumble and retrieve but can never dribble-fumble-dribble.

Hence, a LEGITIMATE pass (not fumble) and recover by the same player without the ball touching anyone or anything else would draw a double-dribble call from me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
A1 is dribbling down the court and clumbsily attempts to pass the ball. He makes a bad pass and the ball bounces once and he catches it. Travel or not? What if the ball bounced twice? Would it matter if the attempted pass was made with 1 hand instead of 2?
Officiating is a tough business. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

You need to better describe what you mean by "bad pass". IF it's a pass (mostly as defined in the book), but was bad because it didn't happen to go to a teammate, then it's a violation. If it was a fumble (again as described in the book), then it's nothing.

It's your judgment.

[Peter Devana]

Indy ref is right!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref
If he/she retrieves the ball AND dribbles again, it's double-dribble...

If he/she retrieves the ball AND takes three steps after gaining control, it's a travel. But he didn't say she took three steps and he didn't say she dribbled again. I think the point oif Ralph's question was can she travel by taking steps to retrieve a fumble. The answer is no.

[Ralph Stubenthal]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

If he/she retrieves the ball AND takes three steps after gaining control, it's a travel. But he didn't say she took three steps and he didn't say she dribbled again. I think the point oif Ralph's question was can she travel by taking steps to retrieve a fumble. The answer is no.

Actually, what I said was, she made a bad pass. For instance, the girl she passed to looked away and moved about the time she passed and no one else was there, so she ran over and picked the ball back up, untouched by anyone. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume the ball bounced 3 times before she retrieved it. In effect, she passed to herself with the exception that the ball hit the floor(3 times). Tricky one, huh?

[BktBallRef]

Actually, what I said was, she made a bad pass. For instance, the girl she passed to looked away and moved about the time she passed and no one else was there, so she ran over and picked the ball back up, untouched by anyone. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume the ball bounced 3 times before she retrieved it. In effect, she passed to herself with the exception that the ball hit the floor(3 times). Tricky one, huh

No, it not tricky at all. It's just that your original post wasn't clear as to what you meant by a bad pass.

Bob is correct. It doesn't matter that how many times the ball hit the floor. If she's already used her dribble, then the proper call would be traveling. If she had not used her dribble or if this was considered a fumble, there wouldn't be a violation.

[Todd VandenAkker]

Also, per Ralph's original multi-part question, if the player used only ONE hand to make the pass, then went several steps to retrieve it, you would generally have nothing (unless the palm was facing upward and the ball came to rest in the hand during the pass attempt). Otherwise, it would only be travelling (double-dribble, actually) if the pass was made with TWO hands, then retrieved.

[mick]

Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker
Also, per Ralph's original multi-part question, if the player used only ONE hand to make the pass, then went several steps to retrieve it, you would generally have nothing (unless the palm was facing upward and the ball came to rest in the hand during the pass attempt). Otherwise, it would only be travelling (double-dribble, actually) if the pass was made with TWO hands, then retrieved.

There are some exceptions, I think.
...If the pass was made with one hand, it may have been initially touched with two, and just passed with one hand.
...If a player palms the ball with his hand on top, or one the side and the ball came to rest before the one-handed pass.
In these cases, I believe the player may not be legal in initiating another dribble.

[BktBallRef]

The number of hands used to throw the pass doesn't have anything to do with it. When she starts the dribble, it doesn't matter if she bats or tosses it to the floor with one hand or two.

4-15-1
A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

If she's already used her dribble, it's traveling or a double dribble according to 4.15.4. It doesn't really clarify if it traveling or double dribble. If she hasn't used her dribble, then it's just the start of a dribble, no matter how many hands she started the dribble with.

[Peter Devana]

How about this one???
You are trail, following the dribbler up the court who is being closely guarded by a defensive player who is running at the side of the dribbler. The dribbler sees a trap developing just over centre ,gathers up the ball to shoot or pass and steps on the defensive players foot and falls to the ground still holding the ball. The crowd goes ballistic-Whats the call-And do you make it correct every time??-Be honest!!
Pistol

[mick]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
How about this one???
You are trail, following the dribbler up the court who is being closely guarded by a defensive player who is running at the side of the dribbler. The dribbler sees a trap developing just over centre ,gathers up the ball to shoot or pass and steps on the defensive players foot and falls to the ground still holding the ball. The crowd goes ballistic-Whats the call-And do you make it correct every time??-Be honest!!
Pistol

Peter,
Sounds like there wasn't enough room between the defenders, the dribbler initiated the minor contact,and the dribbler gets called for a travel.
I call travel, and, yes, the crowd wants my head on a stick.
mick

[Peter Devana]

Good call -it's too bad most of the officials I watch aren't as courageous- too often they take the easy way out and call a foul.
Pistol

[mick]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Good call -it's too bad most of the officials I watch aren't as courageous- too often they take the easy way out and call a foul.
Pistol

Peter,
Last year I had that exact scenario, but as the ball handler split the defenders, he threw a forearm into the chest of one of them, trying to draw a foul, before he fell. I called a PC and that woke up the fans, I'll tell ya!
mick