illegal defense

[EMM]

I am a basketball coach in a little league organization that plays under the National Federation of State High School Assoc rules. I am trying to find out if double and triple teaming a player in the low post when he doesnt have the basketball is considered an illegal defense.

I have a very large player on my 12 year old team, (6 feet 175 lbs) and the refs basically let the other kids beat the heck out of him without calling any fouls. The newest stategy that other couches in the league are using is when when we are taking the ball out under our basket, they surround him with 3 players leaving the weaker players open from outside. I am just curious if this is a technical foul due to illegal defense.

Thank you.

[TriggerMN]

NFHS rules allow for zone defense. The opposing team can guard your big kid with all 5 players if it wants. Unless your organization specifies no zone defenses in its guidelines, I'd have the other kids practice their layups.

Also realize about the officiating:

1. A game amongst 12 year olds is going to be called ALOT differently than a high school or college game.

2. The officials at this level may have little or no training, and are just in it for the $15 a game they are receiving for spending a few hours in the gym each Saturday morning. Don't be too hard on them. There aren't too many other folks willing to volunteer their time.

Welcome to the board.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
2. The officials at this level may have little or no training, and are just in it for the $15 a game they are receiving for spending a few hours in the gym each Saturday morning. Don't be too hard on them. There aren't too many other folks willing to volunteer their time.

Not ALL officials at this level are like that.


Anyways, I assume that your league, like most, has double teaming and other backcourt defense rules. Like Trigger said these are not in the NFHS book, but could be possible rule additions. Talk to your league comissioner.

[just another ref]

Just pump your big kid up when they triple team him and tell him you can't buy respect like that at the supermarket.
Everyone has their own opinion about rules regarding the defense at this level. Some insist on man to man defense only. This creates the exact opposite of your problem. You put your big man on one side and everybody else on the other isolating him against a single defender, probably a total mismatch. So what are you gonna do? Just play the game and do the best you can with what you have. I imagine the other coaches would like to have the problem that you have.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by EMM
....other couches in the league ....

If we had couches our kids would just sit around and play video games.





couldn't help myself

[EMM]

I am not complaining, I am just trying to understand if there is a rule or not regarding this type of double and triple team coverage. The reason I am asking is because the refs are often selectively enforcing the rules(travels, carrys, double dribbles, reaches, etc). Things are very political in my league unfortunately and I am just trying to make sure my kids are treated fairly. It seems that the refs allow the other kids to really rough the big guy up, and then when he is going for rebounds they call over the top all the time even if it is borderline, which almost always puts him in foul trouble. I have taught him to pivot and use the backboard effectively, something that is prior coaches failed to do.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by EMM
The reason I am asking is because the refs are often selectively enforcing the rules(travels, carrys, double dribbles, reaches, etc). Things are very political in my league unfortunately and I am just trying to make sure my kids are treated fairly. It seems that the refs allow the other kids to really rough the big guy up, and then when he is going for rebounds they call over the top all the time even if it is borderline, which almost always puts him in foul trouble.

- "The refs are often selectively enforcing the rules.."
- "Things are very political in my league.."
- "The refs allow the other kids to really rough the big guy up.."
- "when he is going for rebounds, they call over the top all of the time even if it is borderline"

And the best one- "I am not complaining.."

Sigh. Little league basketball. Little league coaches.

[Bart Tyson]

As stated above, you will get inexperienced officials. I'll also add the coaches are also inexperienced. What you determine to be a foul, might just be contact. However, keep posting QUESTIONS.

[rafking]

The rec leagues have these rules to help the flow of the game and to allow all players to participate. It is hard to have such a tall 12 year old playing with smaller kids his age.

I was a rec coach for many years and now a licensed official and do many of the $15 games. I really enjoy this age group.

We always had a rule about no zone defense. The rule also states that a defensive player has to be within 5 feet of their opponent they are guarding. Your other coaches are trying everything possible to guard your player. Just don't make a one man team, thus showing the other teams they have to guard everyone.

Here's what I suggest: Make sure your six footer gets many assists per game. Then the other coaches know you are just not relying on him for points only. So dump the ball into him on the low post, do a pick up top and pull a smaller kid around the other side for an easy layup. Do this three times in row and he wont be triple teamed anymore.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by EMM
The newest stategy that other couches in the league are using

This is better than "howler monkeys" in my opinion. Even howler monkeys are smarter than couches.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
NFHS rules allow for zone defense.

So does NCAA and NBA, by the way. Even his TV-inspired rule ignorance is out of date.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by EMM
I am not complaining, I am just trying to understand if there is a rule or not regarding this type of double and triple team coverage.

Asked and answered, counselor. There is no rule that prohibits a team from positioning multiple defenders around one offensive player.

[icallfouls]

I have always wanted to tell a coach how to do their job, just like they always tell us how to do ours.

Coach, if teams are triple teaming your stud, have him be more active, rather than just setting up in one spot. It is easy to guard a player that isn't moving. This would give you something to tell the officials working your games. "When they triple team # 44, they are holding/impeding him." Yes, impeding is in the NFHS manual. Try using the kid in the high post with the other players not being guarded cutting to the basket, can you say 'lay up drill?'

I also agree that the rest of your team needs to practice making shots instead of passing to the big kid every time down. Go check out a local team that has a dominant post player, see how they move the player to get him the ball.

Wait til the kid gets to HS and he is 6'8"+/-. Some coaches teach the defense to grab arms and hands, then squeeze real hard.

[Hawks Coach]

1) Contact does not equal foul. One of the most important equations in basketball. And in youth basketball, where there is more "illegal" contact than at any other level, this is even more true. This is the hardest level to referee because nobody knows how to play the game properly. And you don't want to foul out every player, which would happen if everything that is technically illegal contact was called a foul.

2) I don't for a minute buy into your politics theory. I don't know how long you have been around this game, but my experience is that the officials always seem to do a more balanced job when you don't care who wins the game.

3) Getting your big man toward the midpost on one side of the lane will open up the other side if double and triple team him - it mnay even be enough space at that age to open up shots in the ball side block. And a pass for a layup or short shot is far better than two FTs anyway, especially at this age. So the advice to use your post man as a passer rather than a shooter is very solid. And teach him how to get good position for rebounds - a big kid at this age will frequently get a lot of calls against him.

[rainmaker]

I've always wanted to say this to a real coach:

"Coach, as long as you keep blaming the refs, your kids aren't going to get better."

Whew, feels good to get that out into the open.

Here's my advice:

1. Find out about your specific rec league. It may be illegal at your level, or it may not. Find out for a fact.

2. As others have advised, teach your other players to screen and roll. Use your big guy to draw the defense, and leave the others wide open.

3. Be sure the big guy is always absolutely legal in his contact. It is going to look worse if he fouls them than if they foul him. That's just vectors and physics.

4. Move the big guy around from one position to another. Don't give him an X on the floor and tell him to stand on it.

5. Teach him to shoot a reliable 3-pointer. This isn't as hard as it may seem. It will definitely screw up the defense royal! And it's completely legal.

6. Move the big guy up to an 8th grade team, where he'll be playing against a more equal field. It'll be better for him, and it'll require your other players to step up to the plate. So to speak.

Hey, I like this telling others what to do! Thanks for the chance, coach!