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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 06:39pm
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i have a bad habit, when I go to games, i catch myself checking the table for subs on violations or wanting to signal a three point try attempt or even trying to get the angle on a play by bobbing and weaving because the big guy eating the hotdog has me straight lined...

Is this just me or do some of you have those same "Ref" knee jerk reactions???

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Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 07:11pm
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Personally, I don't know why those refs don't call it both ways. Not only that - they miss every reach and over the back call.

Why - I've even seen some that let players stay in the lane for 8 or 10 seconds - ESPECIALLY WHEN SHOTS ARE BEING TAKEN!!!! Don't these guys know the rules?

I do - because I see a lot of games on TV, and I played back in junior high.

In addition, they actually call fouls on MY SON!!! Everyone knows he never fouls.
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Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 08:35pm
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Once a ref always a ref!! Since I started refereeing, I watch games as a referee! I try to keep my emotions in check. I do not want fans in the stands to say "He's a ref and he cringed at that call, so the ref on the floor must have made the wrong call." Remember we are sometimes our only friends, whether we are on the floor or in the stands!!

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Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 09:07pm
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Since I am a relatively new "ref", I go to games to watch the officials "orchestrate" the "symphany". I attentively watch the mechanics and mannerisms to confirm in my mind that I am doing it right. Sometimes I witness actions that lead me to ask my mentor questions and how or why they may have made a call.

I will NEVER verbally "chastize", ridicule or in any other way degrade the officials on floor. I presume they are doing their best to call a good game. I will do my best to be a sportsmanlike observer and politely encourage others around me to do the same.

BTW: I have heard or seen all the "tongue-in-cheek" comments/actions mentioned in the previous postings.

Sad, but true!
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 12:17am
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While I agree with most of the comments in this thread I must say that sometimes things need to be said to other officals including myself. We all have bad nights and sometimes it can carry over to another game or two, and then some guys and girls plain suck. They are there for the money and to see how fast they can call a game by not calling anything as to not get into a bonus situation. Tonight I called with an offical where it was his third and fourth games ever. Now his mechanics were poor but he was not afraid to blow the whistle and made it a point to stay after and watch the varsity game with another offical who is quite good. Sometimes it seems that officals will take ridicule and abuse during a game but when another offical tries to critize them in any way it is a no win situation for both. Just a humble opinion.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 09:50am
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Me too!

It's difficult to watch a game and not "be the referee" anymore. I can't enjoy the action on the floor! It is also difficult to enjoy a college TV game, too.

Before I got into the business heavily, I always complained about what officials were or weren't calling. Now, I just note those things in my head and try to learn how I could make a different call...how I could be in better position so that I don't make the wrong call.

Now, when I watch games on TV, I make fun of the pathetic mechanics I see on both the college and pro levels. I work EXTREMELY hard at being mechanically sound. Therefore, when I see poor mechanics on display by guys making SEVERAL hundreds more than me...well, I can't help but laugh. There are mechanically sound officials at all levels, however, there seems to be several more that need a lot of help. Guess they don't care about their mechanics...because if they did, they wouldn't look as bad as they do!
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:07am
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Let's all remember that we are officials year round. It doesn't matter if you go to watch a little league game or a high school football game or soccer. YOU are an official and you know how it feels to be yelled at constantly so even if you think the ref missed a call or the backjudge missed a pass interference call, back them up on their call. We are all in this together!
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:14am
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Thumbs down Re: Me too!

Those college and NBA refs that you think have pathetic mechanics, are not pathetic to their levels. Their mechanics are totally different than NF mechanics. So you might think they are doing something incorrect, when they have different signals and different positioning all together. Keep in mind, they are scutinized much more then we as NF officials would ever understand. They actually have evaluators going over plays with them on a regular basis and going over all, and I mean all their calls.


Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
It's difficult to watch a game and not "be the referee" anymore. I can't enjoy the action on the floor! It is also difficult to enjoy a college TV game, too.

Before I got into the business heavily, I always complained about what officials were or weren't calling. Now, I just note those things in my head and try to learn how I could make a different call...how I could be in better position so that I don't make the wrong call.

Now, when I watch games on TV, I make fun of the pathetic mechanics I see on both the college and pro levels. I work EXTREMELY hard at being mechanically sound. Therefore, when I see poor mechanics on display by guys making SEVERAL hundreds more than me...well, I can't help but laugh. There are mechanically sound officials at all levels, however, there seems to be several more that need a lot of help. Guess they don't care about their mechanics...because if they did, they wouldn't look as bad as they do!
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:23am
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That might be true, Rut, but if it were the case, I'd think I would be seeing all the officials doing either the same thing or close to the same thing, mechanically. I'm not talking about their judgement, just their mechanics...and in that respect, I'm not seeing these guys do the same things!

I'll watch a game and post physical evidence if you want.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:38am
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Lightbulb I think you missed my point.

Indy, you missed the point. What you see might be different according to what conference they are in or not. The Pac 10 does things different from the Big 10 or Big East. They all do not do the same mechanics across the board. Why, because each one has different evaluators as it relates to those conferences. And college officials do not have to birddog on every call like NF refs do. Their signals are entirely different then ours. And this can very depending on men's or women's college basketball. And lets not even talk about the NBA, that is a totally different animal.

All I am saying is that mechanically, you cannot compare NF mechanics to anything else. What you think is horrible mechanics, is great mechanics at the higher levels. I am not trying to say that there are not officials that do not have the greatest mechanics at higher levels, but understand, they are trained better than us, they would not be their if their mechanics were that bad and all are totally different than anything we could ever be taught doing HS ball. Just look at the NBA for example, all those officials for the most part look the same. They have almost taken all the individual style out of officiating at that level.


Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
That might be true, Rut, but if it were the case, I'd think I would be seeing all the officials doing either the same thing or close to the same thing, mechanically. I'm not talking about their judgement, just their mechanics...and in that respect, I'm not seeing these guys do the same things!

I'll watch a game and post physical evidence if you want.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:44am
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Since we're going down this road, i think i'll follow...

Even in some D1 games. I've seen some top-shelf official report fouls by demonstrating (exactly) what the player done.

Red-2.3.-(he'll grab his own shirt) hold-1and1

And there are others that are more dramatic.

What i sometimes like about it...to everyone else, there is NO DOUBT what the foul was. Which helps, but shouldn't we use the official signal -HOLD- and then if there is a question by the coach after that point, then look at the coach and tell them what it was for, then go to Slot.

Sometimes they'll do it the moment they blow their wistle. Is this what they want to see at that level or is it just experience or their style for selling a call?
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:53am
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Lightbulb In NF, yes, college no.

As I have said, their mechanics are totally different. They do have a broader scope of what their signals are. Now let me say this, I do not know what those are all the time. But knowing college officals myself, their mechanics are so different, they have real trouble coming back to NF mechanics when doing a HS game. This is something always discussed in camps and meetings that I have attended.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:54am
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Rut, you have taught me something about the differing mechanics from conference to conference, but that doesn't explain why guys do NOT do the same things IN THE SAME FREAKING GAME. That is my main point! I was watching the Maui Classic and saw one guy bird-dog while two others didn't...one guy stop the clock (ever so briefly) and then point to which way to go on an out-of-bounds ball while another guys didn't.

I know what you're going to say, "Well, those were officials from all over and they were stuck doing games together..." True, but I believe the NF sets a good example for having a STANDARD SET OF MECHANICS. Why can't the NCAA have a standard set?? I have a few NCAA books that show college mechanics. NOWHERE do I see were it says, "If you're in the Big East, then do this..." or "If you're in the Big Ten, then do this..." or "If you're doing women's games, then do this..."

I know that NF mechanics aren't exactly the same as NCAA or NBA. But wouldn't it be nice to have a standard set of mechanics for each level?? Even though they don't have to be the same from level to level?

I'm just saying that it makes MUCH more sense to me to do it this way.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 12:15pm
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Set of standards

You obviously do not understand how officials are hired. If you did, then it would be clearer. Officials are hired by different assignors all together. There is not just one guy or gal that sits out there and hires everyone to do college. The Missouri Valley Conference and the SWAC conference have different assignors all together. In games like the Maui Classic, I am sure that you probably had officials that were in 3 different conferences. The one guy that birddogs might be in a conference that wants them to birddog more. But also understand that birddogging is not outlawed in college, it is used more for clarification of the player that fouled.

Now about the SET STANDARD THAT YOU WANT, well you have to take that up with the NCAA. I have never said that I understand or agree with everything done at that level, but that is just the way it is.

I do not know of you do football, but the Big Ten and the SEC have their officials put their penalty flags in two different places. The Big 10 (and many midwestern conferences that I am aware of) have the officials put their flags in their waist in front. The SEC has the officials put the flags in their back pocket. Now this might not be a big thing or seem like a big thing, but it is very different in philosophy.

I do not know why, I just know it is. You might have to talk to some D1 refs yourself, maybe they understand it better than I do.


Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Rut, you have taught me something about the differing mechanics from conference to conference, but that doesn't explain why guys do NOT do the same things IN THE SAME FREAKING GAME. That is my main point! I was watching the Maui Classic and saw one guy bird-dog while two others didn't...one guy stop the clock (ever so briefly) and then point to which way to go on an out-of-bounds ball while another guys didn't.

I know what you're going to say, "Well, those were officials from all over and they were stuck doing games together..." True, but I believe the NF sets a good example for having a STANDARD SET OF MECHANICS. Why can't the NCAA have a standard set?? I have a few NCAA books that show college mechanics. NOWHERE do I see were it says, "If you're in the Big East, then do this..." or "If you're in the Big Ten, then do this..." or "If you're doing women's games, then do this..."

I know that NF mechanics aren't exactly the same as NCAA or NBA. But wouldn't it be nice to have a standard set of mechanics for each level?? Even though they don't have to be the same from level to level?

I'm just saying that it makes MUCH more sense to me to do it this way.
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Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 12:32pm
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Angry

I do know how assignors work...BUT that is NOT what I'm trying to get at! I'm not debating anything that the assignors do!! I know that there are different ones for almost every conference! Geesh!

I guess my plea to each level's officials for a standard set of mechanics will just go unheard...just disregard all my previous posts.
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