Nitpickin' the Details Correctly

[rainmaker]

After my varsity girls' game tonight, I was sitting in the officials' dressing room with the guys who were going to do the varsity boys' game. They had to wait a while because of the "senior night festivities". So we're shooting the breeze, and one guy tells about a call he had to make the other night, and how they handled it. Here's the play:

A1 drives the lane and shoots a jumper. As he goes up, B1 gets him a good clip on the arm, A1 releases the ball, plows B2 who had legal guarding position, and the ball goes in.

I know this will be easy for some of you, but I was stumped, and I think it would be good for some of us "learners" to work on this for a while. After some discussion, I'll tell what he did, and then the vets can check in on whether it was correct, or not.

[zebraman]

You want it by the book or by reality?

I don't have my rule books here so I'm going by memory here. By the book, I believe you have a false double foul. You have a foul on B1. The ball is still live when A1 crashes into B2 so now you have a player control foul on airborne shooter A1. The ball is dead on the PC foul so no bucket. Administer the fouls in the order they occurred. Two shots for A1 with the lane cleared and then ball out of bounds for Team B.

In reality, that's a foul on B1 and the contact by B1 caused A1 to charge into B2. Count the hoop and shoot one.

Z

[rcwilco]

The try by A1 is a legal attempt, so the foul by B1 will result in either one or two shots, depending on if the basket is good and we count it. The player control foul by A1 negates the basket, therefore two shots for A. Because of the PC foul by A1, the lane will be cleared and following the two shots B will inbound the ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by zebraman
You want it by the book or by reality?

I don't have my rule books here so I'm going by memory here. By the book, I believe you have a false double foul. You have a foul on B1. The ball is still live when A1 crashes into B2 so now you have a player control foul on airborne shooter A1. The ball is dead on the PC foul so no bucket. Administer the fouls in the order they occurred. Two shots for A1 with the lane cleared and then ball out of bounds for Team B.

In reality, that's a foul on B1 and the contact by B1 caused A1 to charge into B2. Count the hoop and shoot one.

Z

Yep -- and if we do it by the book, B can run the end-line if A1 last FT is made; it's a spot throw-in if the last FT is missed.

[Schmidt MJ]

This exact play is in the case book, page 49, situation 6.7.4. And by the way, all answers so far are exactly right.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Yep -- and if we do it by the book, B can run the end-line if A1 last FT is made; it's a spot throw-in if the last FT is missed.

Naw. If we do it by the book, Team B will probably get the ball at the division line for a throw in after the two shots for the technical foul on Team A's head coach are administered.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

Naw. If we do it by the book, Team B will probably get the ball at the division line for a throw in after the two shots for the technical foul on Team A's head coach are administered.

I'm thinking the same thing. Definitely falls in the "what was that???!!!" category.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Schmidt MJ
This exact play is in the case book, page 49, situation 6.7.4. And by the way, all answers so far are exactly right.

I know, I found it last night after I posted it. Man, you guys are good! And by the way, where's MaryAnn?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
After my varsity girls' game tonight, I was sitting in the officials' dressing room with the guys who were going to do the varsity boys' game. . .

Feels pretty good, does it?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by zebraman
You want it by the book or by reality?

I don't have my rule books here so I'm going by memory here. By the book, I believe you have a false double foul. You have a foul on B1. The ball is still live when A1 crashes into B2 so now you have a player control foul on airborne shooter A1. The ball is dead on the PC foul so no bucket. Administer the fouls in the order they occurred. Two shots for A1 with the lane cleared and then ball out of bounds for Team B.

In reality, that's a foul on B1 and the contact by B1 caused A1 to charge into B2. Count the hoop and shoot one.

Z

I'm not sure that I agree with is. It could happen that way, but it also could not happen that way.

I had this call about 2 months ago. A1 driving the lane, B1 has LGP. A1 shows no sign of changing path. B2, comes from the elbow and slaps A1's forearm after the dribble is picked up. Tweet. A1 continues and smucks B1. Ball goes in. Wave off the hoop and award 2... as per rule.

The way I see it, the slapping on the forearm does nothing to "push" A1 in the direction of B1. You can't not penalize a slap on a shooting forearm and you can't not penalize a smuck in the middle of the key.

[ChuckElias]

"smucks"?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker
And by the way, where's MaryAnn?

I think she's still on the island with Gilligan.

[Malcolm Tucker]

Originally posted by rainmaker
B1 gets him a good clip on the arm

For me this is the key. I already have a whistle so bad luck B2.
2 points and 1 shot

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by Malcolm Tucker

For me this is the key. I already have a whistle so bad luck B2.
2 points and 1 shot

Granted, you're not going to have this one happen just every day, but it sure is conceivable. You can't ignore a PC foul because the guy got hit on the arm first. Well, I can't ignore it, anyway. I just hope I never have to call it!

[OverAndBack]

Bob Denver is not dead (he just turned 69 years old last month, if you can believe that), but some of the other castaways are. Jim Backus (Mr. Howell) is dead (1989). Alan Hale (the Skipper) is dead (1990). Natalie Schafer (Mrs. Howell) is dead (1991). Tina Louise just turned 70 last Wednesday. Russell Johnson (the Professor) will be 80 in November, if you can believe that. And the last time I saw Dawn Wells (Mary Ann), who is 65 years old, she looked great.



Now, back to the game.

Since B1's hack (or "smuck") on A1 wouldn't render the play completely over in a normal situation (with no player control foul) until you know if the ball went in or not, I can't see (logically, anyway) why a player control foul while the ball is still in the air wouldn't be a realistic call (and apparently the Powers That Be concur).

The whole thing sounds logical to me. Of course, A1's coach is probably going to go nuts, but all of us in this thread now have ammunition at least. Gotta "sell" the call, I was taught. As long as you sound like you have it down cold, they're more likely to believe you have it down cold.

See, this is why I like this place.