Advantage/Disadvantage talk is making me nervous

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Smitty

Golf is a sport?

:lol:

[theboys]

Unfortunately for me golf is too often a noncontact sport. Or, the contact is incidental. And, let me tell you, the result is foul!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I think if the word "incidental" was used when we say contact then, yes I to agree with most of what you are saying.

Basketball was never ment to be a contact sport. We can thank the NBA over the last 20 years for that!

If basketball was never meant to be a contact sport, and contact would be an ejection. They give you 5 fouls for a reason. And "Incidental Contact" is directly explained in the rules. Baseball can be a contact sport. Baseball allows contact under all kind of situations. Where did you get that philosophy?

Peace

[TPS2859]

They give you 5 fouls hoping you"ll pull your head out of your a$$ and quit making contact. If not bye bye. Look at some OLD video on the game, contact is minimal! Also contact happens when you have a player trying to attempt a move beound his/hers abilities. Sloppy defence comes to mind.

Who said anything about baseball??? Never seen a ump with a whistle yet.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TPS2859
They give you 5 fouls hoping you"ll pull your head out of your a$$ and quit making contact. If not bye bye. Look at some OLD video on the game, contact is minimal! Also contact happens when you have a player trying to attempt a move beound his/hers abilities. Sloppy defence comes to mind.

If there was not contact allowed at all, there would not be a section in the rulebook that talks about incidental contact and there would not be a rule all dedicated to contact and what is and what is not a foul. And who cares about the old videos, you cannot tell half the time what foul they had. Referees are officiating in the lane. The mechanics are not reconizable. So to use the old game as a barometer for todays game. These players today lift weights, they play much more than they ever did. I am not that old and I never had the opportunity to play the AAU and traveling teams the way these kids do today. Not just the boys, but the girls as well.

Originally posted by TPS2859
Who said anything about baseball??? Never seen a ump with a whistle yet.

My comments were not because you stated anything about baseball. My comments are to illustrate that many sports outside of basketball allow for contact to take place. If this was golf, there would be nothing in the game that allows contact or has contact apart of the game.

At the end of the day, call what you feel is best. But do not be surprised if and when you call all contact or slight contact as a foul, do not be surprised if you are held back or do not achieve the things you want to in officiating. Not saying that is automatically going to happen, but you will not win friends at camps and with evaluators by just calling contact a foul that does not affect the play. Call it A/D or not, but you will be expected to use some judgment in determining whether contact warrants a foul. And this is not different than any other sport I officiate. There are mores that apply to all sports, if you want to be accepted or keep officiating.

Peace

[TPS2859]

I have no trouble being accepted. I get all the games I want (6 a week is enough if you want to stay married) and I have no asperations of doing anything higher than high school ball. I get personal satisfaction reffing them from 6th to v-ball and wounder what happened to those years! As far as being held back, I once had to go to summer school in the third grade! In three more weeks she'll all be over for this year (untill summer ball of course).

Rut, it would be nice for once if you would take a little time to see the other persons view without clouding your thoughts with the typical rhetoric.

[Rich]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I have no trouble being accepted. I get all the games I want (6 a week is enough if you want to stay married) and I have no asperations of doing anything higher than high school ball. I get personal satisfaction reffing them from 6th to v-ball and wounder what happened to those years! As far as being held back, I once had to go to summer school in the third grade! In three more weeks she'll all be over for this year (untill summer ball of course).

Rut, it would be nice for once if you would take a little time to see the other persons view without clouding your thoughts with the typical rhetoric.

Not wanting to take sides here, but I went to my first college camp last summer after my 16th year of working basketball. I noticed that most of the "corrective" feedback made by clinicians involved calls that WERE made. Very few comments were made on non-calls.

Rut is right -- working up means knowing when to keep the air out of the whistle. But if what you do works in your neck of the woods and you don't aspire to make the "big time," whatever that is, keep on keeping on. And I'm not trying to sound like a big dog -- I'm only a HS official in basketball myself and it's more than enough for me at this time in my life.


--Rich

[TPS2859]

Not wanting to take sides here, but I went to my first college camp last summer after my 16th year of working basketball. I noticed that most of the "corrective" feedback made by clinicians involved calls that WERE made. Very few comments were made on non-calls.


--Rich [/B][/QUOTE]

And thats why basketball IS a contact sport!

THANK YOU

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I have no trouble being accepted. I get all the games I want (6 a week is enough if you want to stay married) and I have no asperations of doing anything higher than high school ball. I get personal satisfaction reffing them from 6th to v-ball and wounder what happened to those years! As far as being held back, I once had to go to summer school in the third grade! In three more weeks she'll all be over for this year (untill summer ball of course).

I mostly do HS, so I am referring to HS ball mostly. I do did not even reference college, but the same applies there as well. But to suggest that basketball is not a contact sport is rather asinine. I am sorry, but that is the way I see it.

Originally posted by TPS2859
Rut, it would be nice for once if you would take a little time to see the other persons view without clouding your thoughts with the typical rhetoric.

It would be realistic if you realized that my comments do not have to agree with you on any level. I think your way of looking at this is rather silly and stupid in the bigger picture. Because not only does the rulebook make this very clear that all contact is not a foul, that there is not single reference to a "foul is just a foul" wording. Now since you wanted to have this debate, we were having it and yes it is my point of view that I agree with. There is no law that suggests I must go along with your rhetoric that claims "basketball is not a contact sport," even though it is very clear in all the literature of the rules makers that it is. Especially when they say in 4-27-1 says directly, "The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. When 10 players are moving rapidly in a limited area, some contact is certain to occur." I am sorry if that does not fly with your comments, but at least my comments are backed in rulebook language.

If it works for you do that, but I would never suggest any official take the attitude and expect to prosper in officiating. And yes, most officials I know want to do other things than JH and rec. games their entire careers. At last the hundreds officials I meet on a regular basis.

Have a great day.

Peace

[TPS2859]

I NEVER said basketball wasnt a contact sport. I said basketball was not MENT to be a contact sport. When I think of contact I think of hockey, football, even auto racing!

You on the other hand keep bounding that b-ball is a contact sport and that the rules allow for it. Thats only becouse that how you read the rules. Yes I know there is contact in basketball and it is my job to determine if it warrents a foul or not.

As far as JH or rec ball I enjoy those too. Gives me games to do between all the V-games.

And I guess that anyone who doesnt agree with you is silly and stupid, what a simple mind you have not to except someone elses views or oppinions!!

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I NEVER said basketball wasnt a contact sport. I said basketball was not MENT to be a contact sport. When I think of contact I think of hockey, football, even auto racing!

You on the other hand keep bounding that b-ball is a contact sport and that the rules allow for it. Thats only becouse that how you read the rules. Yes I know there is contact in basketball and it is my job to determine if it warrents a foul or not.

As far as JH or rec ball I enjoy those too. Gives me games to do between all the V-games.

And I guess that anyone who doesnt agree with you is silly and stupid, what a simple mind you have not to except someone elses views or oppinions!!

Good for you! You said what you MENT, and MENT what you said!

[Malcolm Tucker]

Well

Can I say that there are some referees who will never change but if a player who has potential is in a system where every touch is called a foul then when that player advances to the stronger competition he or she will not be able to handle the bumps and hits that are not called at that higher level. They will start mouthing off at the officials who are doing exactly what the competition requires and if they (the player)cannot adjust a promising career could be over.

There are no referees at any level that can say "I do not need to get better at this job".

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TPS2859
And I guess that anyone who doesnt agree with you is silly and stupid, what a simple mind you have not to except someone elses views or oppinions!!

My opinions and views have been called stupid by many. And I am sure to many the would be. Espeically when you are not from where I am. And I still go right back to what I do. And yes, I think your opinion on this is stupid on this. Especially when you use football and auto racing in the same sentence to back your argument. I would call football a collision sport, but I would not call auto racing a collision sport. It is a motor sport, and the contact is not person to person. It is vehicle to vehicle.

I have a game to go to, have a nice evening.

Peace

[TPS2859]

I agree.

Hope everyone ( and yes you too Rut) have a good night!!

We just agree to disagree, doesnt mean I dont like or disrespect you!

[gsf23]

Originally posted by TPS2859
I NEVER said basketball wasnt a contact sport. I said basketball was not MENT to be a contact sport. When I think of contact I think of hockey, football, even auto racing!

As I was once told by our state evaluator, "Football and hockey are collision sports, basketball is a contact sport"