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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:23am
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Last night while we were comming onto the floor at the 15 minute mark a kid went up for a dunk. Although it was pretty obvious that he could not get that high he still tried and missed.... Would you T this???
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:27am
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if he contacted the rim with his hand, grasped or pulled in it, I would have to say yes you T it up. If he went up and got stuffed by the rim then I think you could let it go.

How did he miss the dunk?
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOBBYMO
Last night while we were comming onto the floor at the 15 minute mark a kid went up for a dunk. Although it was pretty obvious that he could not get that high he still tried and missed.... Would you T this???
No.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOBBYMO
Would you T this???
Well, here's the rule. . . FED 10-3-4, A player shall not:

ART. 4 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials' jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members.

Having said that, I would have been wiping up a wet spot on the floor at the time of the attempted dunk.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 11:32am
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He got the ball stuffed by the rim without any grasping or pulling down on the rim.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:12pm
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What would you do?

We had a kid in a freshman boys game grab the ring in warm-ups yesterday. The rule book (Fed) is pretty clear about this. But I've heard a lot of officials I respect talk about giving warnings or not seeing pre-game dunks. Why would you, or would you not, enforce this as written?
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:30pm
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Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
We had a kid in a freshman boys game grab the ring in warm-ups yesterday. The rule book (Fed) is pretty clear about this. But I've heard a lot of officials I respect talk about giving warnings or not seeing pre-game dunks. Why would you, or would you not, enforce this as written?
No offense intended here as I am sure these officials are okay if you respect them. But it is because of idiots like that ignore rules or decide not to enforce certain ones that make my job hard when I see it and call it by the rules. We don't have to agree with or like the rules. But when we put those stripes on we are out there to apply them regardless. Too many times we are officiating with different sets of rules. No wonder the coaches and fans are going balistic on us. They are seeing no consistancy. Why you calling a "T" he did it earlier this week and only got a warning or even worse a no-call. Aren't you suppose to give him a warning?
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 12:59pm
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Re: Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally posted by SteveF
Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
We had a kid in a freshman boys game grab the ring in warm-ups yesterday. The rule book (Fed) is pretty clear about this. But I've heard a lot of officials I respect talk about giving warnings or not seeing pre-game dunks. Why would you, or would you not, enforce this as written?
No offense intended here as I am sure these officials are okay if you respect them. But it is because of idiots like that ignore rules or decide not to enforce certain ones that make my job hard when I see it and call it by the rules. We don't have to agree with or like the rules. But when we put those stripes on we are out there to apply them regardless. Too many times we are officiating with different sets of rules. No wonder the coaches and fans are going balistic on us. They are seeing no consistancy. Why you calling a "T" he did it earlier this week and only got a warning or even worse a no-call. Aren't you suppose to give him a warning?
Steve, a couple questions here for ya. Player is making a jump stop his feet come down ever so slightly one before the other do you call it? On a free throw the kid in the lower block has their toe on the ground with their heel protruding over the Block, do you call it? I think not seeing this dunk attempt is as much about the timing right at the 15 minute mark as anything. If the kid was on the way to the hoop as the official walked out and he didn't see the official, then don't make a big deal out of it, especially considering he didn't get it accomplished. I have called it once, it was at the regional tournament, and my partner and I discussed it as it happened. We decided to pass on it because it wasn't a good way to start the game. We didn't think anyone really noticed it anyway, then one of his teammates came and asked us if we were going to penalize him, so at that point we did. The point being a reminder is usually best, a T is supposed to make the game better, starting off with free throws and the throw in with a coach with no coaching box, to me doesn't make the game better....I do think each sitution has to be judged on its own merit...
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 01:51pm
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Re: Re: Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally posted by cmathews
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveF
Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
We had a kid in a freshman boys game grab the ring in warm-ups yesterday. The rule book (Fed) is pretty clear about this. But I've heard a lot of officials I respect talk about giving warnings or not seeing pre-game dunks. Why would you, or would you not, enforce this as written?
No offense intended here as I am sure these officials are okay if you respect them. But it is because of idiots like that ignore rules or decide not to enforce certain ones that make my job hard when I see it and call it by the rules. We don't have to agree with or like the rules. But when we put those stripes on we are out there to apply them regardless. Too many times we are officiating with different sets of rules. No wonder the coaches and fans are going balistic on us. They are seeing no consistancy. Why you calling a "T" he did it earlier this week and only got a warning or even worse a no-call. Aren't you suppose to give him a warning?
Steve, a couple questions here for ya. Player is making a jump stop his feet come down ever so slightly one before the other do you call it? On a free throw the kid in the lower block has their toe on the ground with their heel protruding over the Block, do you call it? I think not seeing this dunk attempt is as much about the timing right at the 15 minute mark as anything. If the kid was on the way to the hoop as the official walked out and he didn't see the official, then don't make a big deal out of it, especially considering he didn't get it accomplished. I have called it once, it was at the regional tournament, and my partner and I discussed it as it happened. We decided to pass on it because it wasn't a good way to start the game. We didn't think anyone really noticed it anyway, then one of his teammates came and asked us if we were going to penalize him, so at that point we did. The point being a reminder is usually best, a T is supposed to make the game better, starting off with free throws and the throw in with a coach with no coaching box, to me doesn't make the game better....I do think each sitution has to be judged on its own merit...
Situation 1 - Yes I call it. If I can tell they did not come down together I call it that way. There is a little gray area here if it is close. If I can not tell I give the benefit of the doubt and don't call.
Situation 2 - Yes I call it. Although in 10 years I have never seen this happen nor do I think it would ever happen since for the insuing rebound the player will want to be planted.
Situation 3 - I call it every time. The players know the rules. If it happens while I am on the court I have to call it. The rules do not give me the option. Rule says it is a technical plain as day. Guess after the coach has to sit the whole game that the kids won't be dunking before the game anymore.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:18pm
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Call, it. You may never know who is in that gym watching you. It won't make the coach happy, but he/she and his/her kids should know better, especially in HS. I called it about two weeks ago, was talking to myself how I was glad that I haven't had to call that yet and not 30 seconds later the kid goes up and grabs and hangs on the rim. Coach was mad at me, I would have benched the kid for the game, but he was the first off the bench (maybe he was a starter). This is just stupid on the players part, they have known this rule forever. As I was walking over I heard his teammates yelling at him telling him he was getting a "T". Bottom line, call it every time.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:30pm
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SteveF, if you really do as you say (and I have no reason to doubt you)and call that little bam bam jump stop, I commend you. I have seen the heel over the block several times, never called it, never will. The pregame attempted dunk, I still side with Chuck, that was probably the exact time I was turning to mention something to my partner about the wet spot there on the floor that we need to clean up...and as we pass the basket we will discuss the relative penalties for dunking now that we are in the confines, (loud enough for any interested players to hear LOL)
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
the kid goes up and grabs and hangs on the rim. Bottom line, call it every time.
This is a different situation. If it's obvious, and everybody in the place knows it happened, then yes, of course, you have to call it. But if the kid tries to dunk, can't quite get over the rim and clangs it off the hoop, you wanna call that? Technically, it's a technical. But rather than start the game by pissing everybody off for something that is marginal, let it go and tell the kid to stay away from the rim. JMO.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:41pm
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Ok. I have a question based on what to call and what not to call. I understand that rules are rules but EVERY Official I have every worked a game with (12 years now) has talked about "Game Management" regarding "gray area" whistles. I think every Official at some point in a game "looks" for a call or let's a call go because of game circumstance, ie. Team Fouls way out of balance (10-2) or a travel call against a team getting blown out by 30 points. I guess my point is that not ALL calls are made when they happen. I think that there are times when not making a call is as important to the game as making a call. OK, now I'm open for opinions and responses.
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by w_sohl
the kid goes up and grabs and hangs on the rim. Bottom line, call it every time.
This is a different situation. If it's obvious, and everybody in the place knows it happened, then yes, of course, you have to call it. But if the kid tries to dunk, can't quite get over the rim and clangs it off the hoop, you wanna call that? Technically, it's a technical. But rather than start the game by pissing everybody off for something that is marginal, let it go and tell the kid to stay away from the rim. JMO.
What I was refering to was the obvious, if he doesn't contact the rim or the sitch described here I would probably issue a stern warning and I would have my partner do the same with the opposing team so as to not show bias. I have actually thought about doing this just as preventative officiating as soon as we hit the floor. Any opinions on this?
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Old Wed Feb 04, 2004, 02:52pm
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I have heard of and seen officials "test" their whistle as they near the "visual confines" There is a Gym in our area where the officials room door opens directly onto the court under one of the baskets...Guys that work there usually give a little whistle test just as they open it....
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