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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 10:14pm
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If a player leaves his feet with the ball but a defender puts his hand on the ball, thus preventing a shot, can the would-be shooter intentionally drop the ball and recover it? Obviously, if the ball is knocked out of his hands, causing a loss of control, he can recover and start a new dribble. But what if the ball is not knocked out? I have seen many players upon being "stuffed" just drop the ball on purpose while airborne and pick it up to avoid coming down with the ball (which would result in a held ball). What's the call? Thanks in advance.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 10:53pm
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On purpose?

Quote:
Originally posted by erikengquist
But what if the ball is not knocked out? I have seen many players upon being "stuffed" just drop the ball on purpose while airborne and pick it up to avoid coming down with the ball (which would result in a held ball). What's the call? Thanks in advance.
As a ref, I'm not trying to determine if he let the ball get hit out of his hand on purpose or not. It's not my job to determine intent. If the FACTS are that the ball was hit, dropped out of his hands to the floor, he can pick it up and go. Play on!
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 10:53pm
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Traveling.

See (d).

4.43.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1's hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 11:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Traveling.

See (d).

4.43.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1's hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.
Maybe its just me...but, I always thought this rule wasn't written well.

The first poster said "stuffed" the ball...to me, this dosen't mean "the touching did not prevent the pass or try".

IT DID PREVENT THE PASS OR TRY...thats probably why the player didn't get the pass or try off. Most officials that I've seen call this a held ball. Go to the arrow.
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Old Tue Feb 03, 2004, 11:39pm
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This should be called a held ball. I missed this call tonight. I usually get this call right, but for some reason, didn't blow the whistle. Got jawcramp or braincramp. The player recovered the ball and shot again, got the rebound and missed another shot. The visiting team then drained a 3 and the H coach was drilling me for not calling a foul. He said,"that was a 5 point swing". I told him I missed a held ball but there was no foul on the play.
In the case above, it is traveling if they are the first to touch the ball. You can't start a dribble with both feet off the floor. Unless you catch the ball while airborn.
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Old Fri Feb 13, 2004, 02:42pm
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Many thanks for the replies. I would agree this is a held ball -- in fact, I saw it called that way in an NBA game this week. The first reply referred to "intent" and suggested it's not an official's job to interpret intent. My reference to the offensive player dropping the ball "on purpose" was meant to indicate that he hadn't lost control of the ball. I would also point out that in rare instances, it's necessary to determine intent. For example, it's illegal to pass the ball to oneself off the backboard. But it's not illegal to rebound one's own missed shot if it hits the backboard but no rim. So in that case, the official must determine if the player's intent was to pass to himself or to shoot.
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Old Fri Feb 13, 2004, 03:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by erikengquist
Many thanks for the replies. I would agree this is a held ball -- in fact, I saw it called that way in an NBA game this week.

Just so you know, Erik, most of us here officiate on the NCAA or HS level. Very few of us know the ins-and-outs of the NBA rules (nor do most of us care). So seeing it called a certain way in an NBA game isn't the best frame of reference when you discuss a play here. Nobody's offended, but most of us just won't be on the same page that you're on.

Quote:
For example, it's illegal to pass the ball to oneself off the backboard.

Erik, this statement is not true in any rule-set that I know of, including the NBA. Perfectly legal to throw the ball off your own backboard, run and catch it.

Quote:
But it's not illegal to rebound one's own missed shot if it hits the backboard but no rim.
In fact, it's not illegal to rebound one's own missed shot, even if it hits nothing -- except in the NBA.
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Old Fri Feb 13, 2004, 07:48pm
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Thanks again for the interpretations. My apologies for the NBA reference -- I know that's frowned upon here. I don't own an NFHS or NCAA rule book, so I'm stuck with the NBA rules at the back of the "Official NBA Guide" published annually.

My point about not being allowed to pass the ball to oneself off the backboard stems from a clause in the NBA rules (again, my apologies) that says, "A player may dribble a second time if he has lost control because of (1) a field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring, (2) an opponent touching the ball, or (3) a pass or fumble which has then touched another player." It also says a dribble ends when the player "throws a pass."

It also defines a field goal attempt this way: "A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to shoot." (In this case a judgment is called for; similarly, I would imagine a HS official who sees a player throw the ball to himself must determine whether he was retrieving his own untouched shot (legal) or untouched pass (illegal, I think).

Taken together, I thought it illegal to pass the ball off the backboard to oneself. Perhaps it's only illegal if the player has ended his dribble.

I presume there's a similar rule at other levels of basketball, though if I'm wrong on that count, it wouldn't be the first time. :-)
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Old Fri Feb 13, 2004, 07:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by erikengquist
I don't own an NFHS or NCAA rule book, so I'm stuck with the NBA rules at the back of the "Official NBA Guide" published annually.
I strongly encourage you to spend a few bucks and get the NFHS rule book (and the other three books, as well: Simplified and illustrated, Case book, and Official's Manual.)
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