New Coach Problem

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:29am

Girls' varsity. Close game for second place in the league. Fourth quarter, A1 who has been hitting all night is headed for another one, defenders close down in front of her, but not in time and A1 gets it from both sides, crumples to the floor. Coach A comes running out (without being beckoned), helps A1 off the floor, sub shoots the ft's, game continues. About a minute and a half later, A3 ends up on the floor, Coach A, again without being beckoned, dashes onto floor but my partner intercepts him, and says he must return to the bench until he is beckoned. Meantime, A3 is up and at 'em, so coach slinks back to bench. A ends up winning by 10.

After the game, Coach A comes over to us (we had no dressing room to escape to -- I know, I know, but it just didn't work out) and says, he's sorry about dashing onto the floor, but that rule is ridiculous and who should he sue if someone gets hurt? My partner and I both sort of gape at him -- wha??? He says, his son broke a leg in a game, and now he rushes to any down player as fast as possible and if we try to stop him, it's us -- I mean, we -- that are responsible for the injuries, and he'll sue us. We both said, "Good game, coach, good night" and left.

So getting onto the floor within five seconds after the kid lands there prevents injury? What biology has he been studying?!?!

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:57am

Just goes to show that why many coaches get very little respect from officials.

Peace

Mark Padgett · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 01:02am

Juulie - tell him to sue Howard. HEE HEE HEE.

Jurassic Referee · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 03:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

After the game, Coach A comes over to us (we had no dressing room to escape to -- I know, I know, but it just didn't work out) and says, he's sorry about dashing onto the floor, but that rule is ridiculous and who should he sue if someone gets hurt? My partner and I both sort of gape at him -- wha??? He says, his son broke a leg in a game, and now he rushes to any down player as fast as possible and if we try to stop him, it's us -- I mean, we -- that are responsible for the injuries, and he'll sue us.

Seriously, Juulie, you do need to report this one to Howard- if he's the one that handles situations like these. Someone needs to straighten this coach up. He's threatening officials, and no one should have to put up with that.

firedoc · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:17am

As a physician specializing in Emergency Medicine, I find this coach's theory on injury prevention to be fascinating. Perhaps it will help me get that long hoped for Nobel Prize in Medicine...and the million dollars or so that comes with it. Probably though it will just get me a walk-on role in the TV show ER.

firedoc · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:18am

As a physician specializing in Emergency Medicine, I find this coach's theory on injury prevention to be fascinating. Perhaps it will help me get that long hoped for Nobel Prize in Medicine...and the million dollars or so that comes with it. Probably though it will just get me a walk-on role in the TV show ER. Or, I can give the coach my son's name...he's in law school!

JugglingReferee · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 07:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by firedoc
As a physician specializing in Emergency Medicine, I find this coach's theory on injury prevention to be fascinating. Perhaps it will help me get that long hoped for Nobel Prize in Medicine...and the million dollars or so that comes with it. Probably though it will just get me a walk-on role in the TV show ER.

You can say that again!

Axe Man · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 09:28am

Well....this is America, land of the lawsuit. In theory, he could sue you for his players injury. But why stop at sueing the officials. The state association and the National Federation must have aided in the players injury. They created and administered the rules. If the flooring company had done a better job with the seal, the player wouldn't have been hurt. The players uniform fit incorrectly. I'm sure that Nike built a defective shoe. In fact, he could sue LeBron James as a Nike spokesman for false advertising. The list is endless.

What...the fact that the player just fell down because of lack of ability? Not in this country buddy. It's always someone elses fault.

rockyroad · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 10:31am

As stated above, Juulie, you really, really, really, do need to tell Howard about this...not only so he can tell the coach to knock it off, but also so he can tell the other officials who will have to deal with this coach the rest of the season...the next crew to have him needs to whack him the first time he rushes onto the court like that...

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:12pm

I am not going to address the coach's injury prevention theories, but rather the official intercepting the coach and preventing him from going to the injured player.

NFHS R3-S3-A5: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the time-out.

NFHS Casebook Play 3.3.5 Situation B: A1 appears to be injured and an official properly halts play and the Team A coach rushes onto the court to check A1. Howeve, A1 is OK and seems ready to play within a few seconds. RULING: A1 must be removed as the coach came onto the court. A1 may remain in the game if the coach does not come on the court and A1 is ready to play immediately. If the coach or other bench personnel have come onto the court, the player must be replaced. There is no set amount of time as to what is "immediately," but it should not involve more that a few seconds and it must be without the coach, trainer or doctor being beckoned and/or entering the court. The coach may also call a time-out to keep the player in the game. (R1-S5-A2b)

The effect of the rule is not to prevent a coach from entering the court unless beckoned by an official, but if a coach enters the court whether beckoned by an official or not, the player must leave the game. In Julie's orginal post, her partner was incorrect when he interecepted the coach and told him he could not enter the court without being beckoned. I am going to speculate, and assume that Julie's partner was confusing the injury rule with the fighting rule and beckoning coaches onto the court to help stop a fight.

Charging a coach with a techncial foul for entering the court to attend to an injured player without beckoned by an official is definitely incorrect and cannot be defended by rule.

[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Jan 28th, 2004 at 11:15 AM]

Smitty · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 12:24pm

Wow, good call and nice job of providing a thorough and very clear interpretation of the rule for a coach tending to an injured player. There are so many similar, yet clearly different rules we need to keep in our minds and deal with sometimes on a regular basis and sometimes only on a rare occasion. This is why I enjoy reading the threads on this site - to make sure I get the rare occasion rules right when they come up. Winding my way through the belted pants threads to get to a post like this makes it all worthwhile. I was under the false impression that I had to beckon a coach for an injured player. Now I know. Thanks for that, Mark.

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
The effect of the rule is not to prevent a coach from entering the court unless beckoned by an official, but if a coach enters the court whether beckoned by an official or not, the player must leave the game. In Julie's orginal post, her partner was incorrect when he interecepted the coach and told him he could not enter the court without being beckoned. I am going to speculate, and assume that Julie's partner was confusing the injury rule with the fighting rule and beckoning coaches onto the court to help stop a fight.

Charging a coach with a techncial foul for entering the court to attend to an injured player without beckoned by an official is definitely incorrect and cannot be defended by rule.

A) We didn't charge him a technical.
B) We didn't know if the player was injured -- and, in fact, she wasn't.
C) We should have made her leave the game, since the coach had, in fact, come on to the court to help her. But we weren't thinking about it at that moment due to several rather emotional exchanged taking place at the same time.
D) We weren't trying to prevent him from getting to an injured player. We were trying to keep him from rushing onto the court for no apparent reason.

Smitty · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 01:39pm

I think if a kid falls on the floor and stays there, injured or not, it's fair for the coach to assume the kid might be injured and therefore be inclined to rush onto the court (now that I know the rule). Who knows, maybe the kid has a history of injury and the coach is overly concerned? In the girl's games I've worked this year, half the time a girl goes down and stays there she's crying because her ego got hurt, not because of any physical injury. As long as the kid comes out of the game or the coach burns a timeout and leaves them in, no big deal.

BayStateRef · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 04:25pm

I had this -- in reverse -- yesterday. Girl goes down chasing a loose ball around free throw line at her bench's end of the court. She gets up, doesn't look great, but shakes it off and gets ready for inbounds play. Just after ball is back in play, I hear coach behind me ask to get a sub in for her injured player. I stop play, go up to the girl and ask if she is OK. She is not. She's crying and she's hurt. (And she never came back into the game.)

So, here I am, giving the player a chance to stay in the game by not beckoning the coach -- and it bites me on the butt.

rainmaker · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 28, 2004, 05:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BayStateRef
I had this -- in reverse -- yesterday. Girl goes down chasing a loose ball around free throw line at her bench's end of the court. She gets up, doesn't look great, but shakes it off and gets ready for inbounds play. Just after ball is back in play, I hear coach behind me ask to get a sub in for her injured player. I stop play, go up to the girl and ask if she is OK. She is not. She's crying and she's hurt. (And she never came back into the game.)

So, here I am, giving the player a chance to stay in the game by not beckoning the coach -- and it bites me on the butt.

You can hardly blame yourself if the kid wants to stay in the game, and the coach doesn't make an issue of it. You are certainly not responsible to make a medical assessment everytime a player hits the deck. If the kid gets up and wants to keep playing, and the coach hasn't come out onto the court, what's the problem?