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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 09:39am
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As a member of our rating committee, I was observing a game in which the following happened. I believe the official was correct but I thought I'd run it by this group. After a goal by team A, a team B player slapped the ball after it came through the net, towards the end line where Team B was to make a throw-in, with enough force and angle to cause the ball to carom off the wall and then bounce away toward the sideline. The lead official immediately blew the whistle and issued a warning to Team B for delay of the game. The Team B coach then called time out and asked the official how can that be a warning for delay since it was his team's player that did the act? He went on to make the point that his team was, in effect, being punished twice for his player's actions. Once for the ball bouncing away preventing a quick throw-in and then the delay of game warning. He argued that only an opponent knocking the ball away warrants a warning. The official then responded that no place in the rule book does it state that the act has to be by an opponent of the team entitled to the throw-in. I believe this official was correct. NFHS 10-3-7 refers to a player without specification as to opponent or teammate. In the other sections related to warnings I found similar language. Just wanted to know what you think.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 10:16am
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I see two parts.

1) Was the act intentional, from the sound of it yes.

2) Did it delay the game, again yes.

Good Call!!
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:09am
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Could the official have simply ignored the "slap" and let Team B recover and inbound the ball? After all, the clock was presumably still running, so the game itself is not really being delayed, just B's throw-in. I would probably have let the clock keep running and decide when to start my 5-second throw-in count, then when I got a chance mentioned to the player to not slap the ball after it goes through. In that situation, it seems to me the intent of the rule is more to prevent the opposing team from gaining an advantage by giving them a few extra seconds to set up on defense. Since B put themselves at a disadvantage, unless the ball goes well off the court and the ref really HAS to blow his whistle, why issue a warning?
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:25am
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Not saying I would, but they did and I think it is well within the rules to do so. I try not to disrupt the flow of a game unless I need to.

Walt- did the ball roll under the bleachers or anything? In that case I might drop a warning.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 11:27am
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Since it was B that slapped the ball OB I would determine that at the time of the slap the ball was at the disposal of team B and start my 5 second count. I bet B1 wouldn't do that again.

What do you all think.....
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2000, 12:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Pilo
Since it was B that slapped the ball OB I would determine that at the time of the slap the ball was at the disposal of team B and start my 5 second count. I bet B1 wouldn't do that again.

What do you all think.....
My buddy to the North, Ron, is exactly right. Here's why. If B1 slaps the ball after a goal by A, B1 has chosen to slap instead of taking the ball OOB. In my opinion, he has refused to start the inbounding, the same as if he stepped OOB without the ball and chose not to pick it up. The ball is at his disposal when he makes that choice. Start the five second count when he slaps and go from there.

In other words, he really hasn't "delayed" the game, he only chose the method by which you determine when to start your count.

In fact, starting a five count under these circumstances is standard operating procedure in my association.
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Old Thu Dec 07, 2000, 04:18am
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Are we voting? I'm with Mark on this one. Starting the 5-second count at the slap feels like the equivalent of the resuming play procedure -- and I expect it's going to sit better with a coach.
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Old Thu Dec 07, 2000, 11:00am
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I'm with Mark and Ron. I would start the five second count.

But 10-3-7a says,
A Player shall not:
Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.

I think the rule book answer would be to issue a technical foul. 4-46-3 say "...For interfering with the ball following a goal as in 10-1-5d." I don't believe the spirit and intent of this rule was to give the thrower a warning. Can the thrower can interfere with the ball? He can delay the game by slapping it away, which would result in a T. I would have to agree with the Coach on this one. Then call the T. That should really make him happy!

Someone posted that the clock was running, so the game wasn't being delayed. But what if this is late in a tight game and Team A is down. You would be forced to stop the clock and retrieve the ball. In this case, would you call the technical foul, give a warning, or simply ignore it?
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Old Thu Dec 07, 2000, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Someone posted that the clock was running, so the game wasn't being delayed. But what if this is late in a tight game and Team A is down. You would be forced to stop the clock and retrieve the ball. In this case, would you call the technical foul, give a warning, or simply ignore it?
No T or warning if you let the clock keep running and start your 5-second count. The throw-in team (B) is entitled to that much time anyway, and if they slapped the ball away there is a greater chance of a throw-in violation and Team A getting the ball back quickly. Team B would have screwed THEMSELVES, and Team A would be the beneficiary.
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Old Sat Dec 09, 2000, 11:29pm
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If we are voting, I'm for starting the count and leaving the delay of game call alone in this instance. Just my two cents worth.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 12:16am
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Cool

Not knowing all the circumstances around the situation (how much time left in the game, grade level, how far the ball rolled away from the baseline, etc.), I think I would have issued a delay of game warning on team B. But when I went to the table to report the violation, I would have informed the coach that his/her player delayed the start of the 5-second count. I would also inform the coach that it was not you who penalized his/her team but, their player. You were only enforcing the rules. Don't you like it when coaches try to blame us for their players mistakes?

If the ball rolled away but not too far and I was able to delay the start of my 5-second cound for a couple of seconds, I would do so and I would tell the kid and his/her coach to stop doing that at my earliest convience.

If this was late in the game and B was trying to avoid inbounding the ball, I would blow it dead and report a delay of game infraction.

Also, consider the level of basketball. Was this a 7th/8th/ 9th grade, JV or Varsity game? The higher up you go, the more you should expect the players to know the rules.
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