Basket Interference?

[bsktball_ref]

the quote is from the casebook example -10.3.4SitB(a)

[rockyroad]

Hey - where's that quote from again? I can't seem to find it anywhere...

[bsktball_ref]

This damn site keeps returning server errors and posts the thread anyway.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bsktball_ref
This damn site keeps returning server errors and posts the thread anyway.

If you punch "edit/delete" under your posts, you can delete all of your duplicate posts.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by bsktball_ref
While I appreciate your being blunt, your logic fails. I am sticking with NF rules here.

It is a stretch to say that casebook play 10.3.4SitB(a) is "exactly the same as the initial post on this thread".

The initial thread states that this is a dunk attempt. I'll quote, "A1 jumps for a try near the basket but loses his/her balance after releasing the ball. A1 grasps the basket to prevent injury. The ball: (a) is in the basket or on the ring while A1 is hanging on the ring."

The aforementioned situation is not a generic "try." By definition it is a dunk. And in the casebook example he grasps the ring following the try. In the exaple here, he is grasping the ring as part of a dunk or stuff. And--"Dunking or stuffing is legeal and is not basket interference" I don't believe that the spirit of the rule is ignored when the initial part of the dunk fails.

The dunking/stuffing reference gives a pass, so to speak, for BI of the hand-on-the-ball-while-in-the-cylinder type. Therefore, grasping the rim is not protected.


To look at this from another angle, let's assume that the dunk doesn't end when the ball bounces up off the rim (it does, IMO). In this case, the grabbing of the rim has nothing to do with the dunk. The majority of dunks are made without significant rim grabbing/touching. Since the grabbing of the rim is unrelated to the dunk, the grabbing is what we penalize as BI.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by bsktball_ref
Hey other BktBallRef, correct me if I am wrong here. (I'm sure you would anyway.)

By rule 4-16 he was dunking "Dunking or stuffing is the driving, forcing, pushing or attempting to force a ball through the basket with the hands"

Rule 9-11 (basket interference) has an exception. "Dunking or stuffing is legeal and is not basket interference"

Now, I have rules to back up the call. No BI. The player gets the call and bucket he deserves and no rules were ignored or set aside.

Furthermore, as far as the rule 9-11 is concerned, The player violated
Art 1. "player touches the ball or basket" but as part of a dunk attempt. =no BI
Articles 2, 3, & 4 were not violated in teh given scenario.

No BI. Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm afraid that you're incorrect. The the definition of dunking. When the ball doesn't go through the basket but itinstead, goes up in the air, it's no longer a dunk and A1 can no longer touch the ball or the ring and basket after the ball enters the basket.

Consider this play:

A1 attemtps to dunk the ball and is fouled in the act of shooting. The dunk misses and bounces in the air within the imaginary cyliner. Meanwhile, A1 is hanging on the rim to protect himself. While hanging by one hand, he slams the ball home with his other hand. Is this BI?



BTW, I sincerely wish you would consider changing your username. It would certainly make it less confusing. You've only just arrived and it would be very easy to change your name to something more unique. I would appreciate it.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Saw Basket Interference call made Monday late evening during the Brigham Young vs New Mexico game.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Dan, I'm saying two things
#1 the Lead doesn't usually call basket interference. It is usually called by the Trail or Center.

#2 On a single shot attempt during this game there were two instances of basket interference. The first by the defense (dead ball, count the basket) which caused a second BI by the offense (dead ball, don't count the basket).

The lead official saw and enforced the second BI (no basket).

_________________

as for the dunking issue,

perhaps people would like to check rule 9-11 Exception:
"If a player has his/her (PC) hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference."

[DownTownTonyBrown]

What's wrong with Bisket and Bucket?

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Dan, I'm saying two things
#1 the Lead doesn't usually call basket interference. It is usually called by the Trail or Center.

#2 On a single shot attempt during this game there were two instances of basket interference. The first by the defense (dead ball, count the basket) which caused a second BI by the offense (dead ball, don't count the basket).

The lead official saw and enforced the second BI (no basket).

OK, I take it back. I did have some idea, and that idea was everything you just said here.

What was the play that resulted in 2 BIs? Go slowly, I'm not as smart as I look.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

[/B]

as for the dunking issue,

perhaps people would like to check rule 9-11 Exception:
"If a player has his/her (PC) hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference."

[/B][/QUOTE]Tony, l'il bbref mentioned that cite about 6 hours ago. Not applicable on a missed dunk. If it was applicable, then case book play 10.3.4SitB(a) wouldn't exist because it's completely contradictory to what you people are trying to read into that exception.The language in that case book play couldn't be clearer.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
perhaps people would like to check rule 9-11 Exception:
"If a player has his/her (PC) hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference."

But there's no rule that allows him to lose contact of the ball and then touch it once again within the cylinder, ring or basket. Read what you posted. In this play, "contact with the ball" does NOT continue. He loses contact and then touches the ball again.

Given your interpretation, A1 could attempt to dunk, have the ball bounce high into the air, return to the floor, and then go back up and jam the ball as it sat on the rim.

Just like the original post, and my previous example, all three are BI.

[JeffTheRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

The dunking/stuffing reference gives a pass, so to speak, for BI of the hand-on-the-ball-while-in-the-cylinder type. Therefore, grasping the rim is not protected.


To look at this from another angle, let's assume that the dunk doesn't end when the ball bounces up off the rim (it does, IMO). In this case, the grabbing of the rim has nothing to do with the dunk. The majority of dunks are made without significant rim grabbing/touching. Since the grabbing of the rim is unrelated to the dunk, the grabbing is what we penalize as BI.

Mark - I had this situation last summer, before the new casebook interpretation came out, and I ruled, rightly I thinkat the time, since there was no case law, that it was not BI. I followed the play and interpreted it on the spot. A missed shot. A player leaps for the rebound, grabs it, attempts to dunk it. The ball is rejected by the cylinder, bounces straight up high over the basket. The dunker grabs the rim to stop his own momentum, and, in traffic, looks down to be sure there's a place to come down, before releasing the rim. While he's doing that, the ball falls through the basket.

I don't think you can penalize any rim-grabber who is 'legitimately' concerned for his own or another player's safety.

[JeffTheRef]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I'm afraid that you're incorrect. The the definition of dunking. When the ball doesn't go through the basket but itinstead, goes up in the air, it's no longer a dunk and A1 can no longer touch the ball or the ring and basket after the ball enters the basket.

Consider this play:

A1 attemtps to dunk the ball and is fouled in the act of shooting. The dunk misses and bounces in the air within the imaginary cyliner. Meanwhile, A1 is hanging on the rim to protect himself. While hanging by one hand, he slams the ball home with his other hand. Is this BI?


Sure, it's BI if a player engaged in an act of ringly self-protection decides to takes advantage on the exception granted! But if he doesn't, as I say in another post, I don't think there should be any penalty ever attached to protecting yourself or others up around the rim. I see what the casebook says. I RARELY disregard 'duh rules'. Then again, I had a beard back when it could get you thrown (physically) out of bars in Southie.


BTW, I sincerely wish you would consider changing your username. It would certainly make it less confusing. You've only just arrived and it would be very easy to change your name to something more unique. I would appreciate it.

[bsktball_ref]

Hey BktBallRef,

Due to your tactful post and civil request I will have no problem changing my handle here. This will be my last post with this username. The confusion and coincidence was totally unintentional. Please accept my apologies and I will from this point be 'footlocker'.

(I'm not an official because of my creativity)

And for the record, I am convinced. I will make the call BI when and if this situation arises. Thanks

[footlocker]

It appears that everything is working fine.