Ejected!

[w_sohl]

Was reading Referee Magazine last night and saw a case play that was relevant to a sitch that I had two nights earlier. Sophmore boys game during warmup home player dunks ball and grabs ring and hangs. I walk over to get his number so that I can inform the coach that we will be starting the game with one "T", that blue will get the ball and he will get the arrow. I also inform that this goes against the player and team totals. I forgot to inform him that it is an indirect for him and that he is seated the rest of the contest. As I read the case play I found out that I did more than just that wrong according to NFHS rules. According to the case play this sitch is TWO technical fouls, one for dunking the other for grasping the ring, he is ejected for the game, blue should have gotten four free throws plus the ball, the coach gets two indirects and is seat belted for the rest of the contest. Now, how many of you knew this was the way the rule was set up and how many of you would have called it that way? Seems a little harsh. The coach gave me sh1t for it when I told him before the game, I could just imagine if I had done it right.

[BktBallRef]

Don't believe everything you read in REFEREE. They are notorious form printing incorrect quizzes answers and case play rulings.

The appropriate rule, 10-3-4, states:

A player shall not:
Grasp either basket during the time of the officials' jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members.

I see that as one act, one technical foul.

[TriggerMN]

Agreed. One technical. The guy can dunk and do a chin up, as far as I'm concernced. It's one act, one technical.

[Kelvin green]

Rich
The mechanic you describe is less than goofy. The NBA 2 man does it that way, and it makes sense in many situations to call it. It is pretty much the common practice where I ref... Trail has first shot at most plays OOB above FT Line extended.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
Rich
The mechanic you describe is less than goofy. The NBA 2 man does it that way, and it makes sense in many situations to call it. It is pretty much the common practice where I ref... Trail has first shot at most plays OOB above FT Line extended.

I have to agree here, too many times the ball goes out up high here and because it is out of the Leads primary there eys are not trained near the ball, the Trail has a great look because the ball is already in their primary and they are looking at it already. I know I usually need help if the ball goes out high on my sideline so the Trail usually ends up making the call anyway.

[Rich]

Originally posted by w_sohl

I have to agree here, too many times the ball goes out up high here and because it is out of the Leads primary there eys are not trained near the ball, the Trail has a great look because the ball is already in their primary and they are looking at it already. I know I usually need help if the ball goes out high on my sideline so the Trail usually ends up making the call anyway.

It's fine if you need help. Get the help. However, the first shot should come from the lead official. It's his/her line. Another place where we could get a double call.

Once again, I ask the question -- if I'm looking off ball as the lead and the ball shoots out on the baseline opposite -- why don't we give that one to the trail who is on ball in primary?

We just don't. If I need help, which I sometimes do, I get the help. But it's still my call to make.

[zakman2005000]

It's fine if you need help. Get the help. However, the first shot should come from the lead official. It's his/her line. Another place where we could get a double call.

Once again, I ask the question -- if I'm looking off ball as the lead and the ball shoots out on the baseline opposite -- why don't we give that one to the trail who is on ball in primary?

We just don't. If I need help, which I sometimes do, I get the help. But it's still my call to make. [/B][/QUOTE]

Up here in NW Wisconsin, I'm guessing it runs 50/50 as to who will take that call. I prefer to have the trail take that call if the play has been in his/her primary the whole time. If I as lead have a competitive match up in the post and/or screening action in the paint, a good percentage of the time I wouldn't have any idea who caused the ball to oob due to the fact that I'm turned toward the paint and would see the ball at best out of the corner of my eyes. In fact, there are some times I'm not even sure the ball actually went out of bounds. In your scenario on the baseline, at least if I'm looking at post play, I have a good chance to see the ball go oob on the baseline as I will be able to see through the action. If you need help at that point, by all means get it. IMO, you're going to ask alot less on the baseline than you will on the sideline.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
It's fine if you need help. Get the help. However, the first shot should come from the lead official. It's his/her line. Another place where we could get a double call.

Once again, I ask the question -- if I'm looking off ball as the lead and the ball shoots out on the baseline opposite -- why don't we give that one to the trail who is on ball in primary?

We just don't. If I need help, which I sometimes do, I get the help. But it's still my call to make.

I'm not saying I don't make the call, I do because it is my line, but more time than not I have to ask for help if it is up high on that side line. I may even have to ask for help on that baseline.

[Camron Rust]

This biggest issue I have with trail calling OOB above the FT line is that trail can't see the line!

Sure, it works fine for ball that are thrown out, but for stepping out, only the lead can have a good look at that. I've had partners, on more than one occassion, try to make that call as trail and get it grossly wrong.

The best way to see any line is to look along the line.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
This biggest issue I have with trail calling OOB above the FT line is that trail can't see the line!

Sure, it works fine for ball that are thrown out, but for stepping out, only the lead can have a good look at that. I've had partners, on more than one occassion, try to make that call as trail and get it grossly wrong.

The best way to see any line is to look along the line.

You hit the nail on the head.

I don't have a big problem with this -- I follow my competitive matchup, but realize I may have to use peripheral vision and awareness on the ball going out. And since we're boxing the players in, I'm sliding out on the baseline when the ball is moving towards that line -- so the player stepping out over there is mine since I'm right on the line.

The best way to avoid this is to have three officials (but then the center will have to help on those ones on the baseline that shoot out when L is off ball). Hey, I got an idea -- how about everyone just watch the ball?!?