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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 10:05am
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Watching yesterday's UConn-UNC game, I noticed 4 or 5 times when one of the officials would mark a three in his partner's primary (C in T's primary or vice-versa). I'm not talking about a gray area where the two primaries meet, I'm talking about an attempt way on the other side of the floor.

When I work three person, this is a big NO-NO. Even if you saw the attempt on the other side, you would not want others to know you were looking there. I also noticed the same thing in one of last week's televised games, not as often however.

Jay
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 10:39am
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I don't think this is quite as big a deal as you seem to, Jay. I would agree that the Lead shouldn't know if a shot from the top of the key is a 2 or 3. But as C, a lot of times the action is away from you, and there's nobody directly in front of you. In that case, it's easy to see the T's indication, and then I can see echoing it. While I think it's true that the C shouldn't be officiating the 3-point arc (in the T's primary), I don't see anything wrong with echoing the T's signal for a 3point try. JMO
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 12:52pm
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I was also told in camps this summer--my only three whistle experience--that the C and T should not echo the three point attempt signal (but should echo the three point signal if the shot is good). I've also been told the same about the T echoing the L's three point attempt signal in 2 man. OTOH, I have to agree with Chuck that on the scale of big deals, this has gotta rank pretty low.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 02:11pm
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I've been taught that two refs marking the 3 is a bad thing. If your P has it, look elsewhere and if it goes in, echo it's good. If this right, wrong or otherwise?

Larks
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 02:57pm
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Larks

You are right. We should not mirror attempts out of our primary in a three whistle crew. If you are then you are not watching off ball. And as a crew member that would concern me. I always use this example in my pre-games and say if this happens it should be instant feedback to us as a crew that our C-T ball transition coverage is not being communciated well. The fist opportunity (full time-out, half time) we will talk about it.

Though I agree it is not the end of the world. It is just one way for us as a crew to know who is looking where. And yes L should NEVER mirror succesful three's.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2004, 11:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dewey1
Larks

You are right. We should not mirror attempts out of our primary in a three whistle crew. If you are then you are not watching off ball.
This is an exaggeration. We all have peripheral vision.
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2004, 01:04am
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I agree that we have peripheral vision. I am almost always aware when my partner signals a three, but when I mark it is when my focus is off my primary and I am ball watching. Awareness and physically mirroring are two different thing in my opinion. But coaches notice this stuff and I think it is important that if your partner has it then leave it alone.

Here is a rare situation, but one I have seen happen more than once. T indicates 3 attempt and C mirrors the attempt. Then T realizes that A1's toe was on the line and drops their hand. I have seen 2 different situation occur, neither of which is good I think. Senario 1- C drops hand as T does - I believe this indicates too much focus on T's movements and not enough on rebounding action. Senario 2- the shot goes in and C indicates successful 3 not realizing that T has taken away the attempt.

I am not agruing that you are not aware of what your partner is doing, just that your focus needs to be elsewhere when the ball is not in your primary and nothing good can come from marking 3 point attempts. I would be interested in anyone's opinion on how this would benifit the crew or the game. Like I said in my last post, not the end of the world by any means, but something that crews need to be aware of and talk about. C to T ball tranistion is extermly important in 3 whistle officating. We do not need 4 eye's on the ball.
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2004, 08:20am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dewey1
I agree that we have peripheral vision. I am almost always aware when my partner signals a three, but when I mark it is when my focus is off my primary and I am ball watching. Awareness and physically mirroring are two different thing in my opinion. But coaches notice this stuff and I think it is important that if your partner has it then leave it alone.

Here is a rare situation, but one I have seen happen more than once. T indicates 3 attempt and C mirrors the attempt. Then T realizes that A1's toe was on the line and drops their hand. I have seen 2 different situation occur, neither of which is good I think. Senario 1- C drops hand as T does - I believe this indicates too much focus on T's movements and not enough on rebounding action. Senario 2- the shot goes in and C indicates successful 3 not realizing that T has taken away the attempt.


I am not agruing that you are not aware of what your partner is doing, just that your focus needs to be elsewhere when the ball is not in your primary and nothing good can come from marking 3 point attempts. I would be interested in anyone's opinion on how this would benifit the crew or the game. Like I said in my last post, not the end of the world by any means, but something that crews need to be aware of and talk about. C to T ball tranistion is extermly important in 3 whistle officating. We do not need 4 eye's on the ball.
To be honest, we usually don't need two eyes on the ball if there's no competitive matchup happening.

I usually work 2-whistle HS games, but I'm also licensed in the state due south of me and worked two 3-whistle varsity boys games on Saturday. If the ball is in the gray area, and both hands go up (T and C), I'll typically drop my hand -- but my concern is that BOTH of us will. But you're right, the first thing I do when I have a three close to the gray area is look across at my partner with peripheral vision to see if there's a hand up.

It's important to get that look anyway, cause if it goes in we need to mirror the signal.
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2004, 11:40am
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I agree with Chuck that the marking (in the gray area) is not that big of a deal but what can be confusing is the contact on the shooter responsibility. It is just not a matter of one official dropping their signal, somebody has to make sure someone is bringing the shooter down. Not only down, but make sure that the defender is not boxing him out in an aggressive manner. It takes a lot of discipline to not follow the flight of the ball or a lot of discipline to stay, stay, stay with the shooter and a runner coming at him. Two markers go up and you both drop your signal and turn to rebounding/goaltending action and the next thing you know someone is on the floor and you won't be sure how they got there.

A pre-game could include that if both mark in the gray area, the C will drop and the T will have the shooter. However, if a shooter is WAY over on my side of the court when I am C, I am staying with the shooter.
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