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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 01:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
It hasn't been eliminated because each year, rough play is a POE. If we allow players to post up in the lane without any restrictions, rough play will continue to be a problem. [/B]
Then why does the 3-second count continually not get called? Why do refs come on here and say that if you call 3-seconds you won't work past junior high. Why do they say they won't call it unless they have been in the lane for 5...7...10 seconds? Why keep a rule in there that apparently very few people are willing to enforce or want to be enforced?

As a coach I could care less if it is at 3 seconds, 5 seconds or 10 seconds. I'll adjust, but whatever it is just call it.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 01:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
Then why does the 3-second count continually not get called?
I normally see it called when there's an advantage gained. Yes, the rule could be tweaked but it's not going to be eliminated.

Quote:
Why do refs come on here and say that if you call 3-seconds you won't work past junior high.
I've been reading this site for over 3 and a half years and I've never read that.

Quote:
Why do they say they won't call it unless they have been in the lane for 5...7...10 seconds? Why keep a rule in there that apparently very few people are willing to enforce or want to be enforced?
Quite honestly, I don't see that happening. What I do see is it called to strictly when a 5th grade girl is stiing in the lane but has no clue where she's at.

Let's say we change the rule to 5 seconds. Do you really think people are suddenly going to change and call it strictly by the rule? I don't.

It's the old adage. Give'em an inch and they'll take a foot. All changing the rule to 5 seconds would do is allow the players to be in longer and longer before it's called.

Quote:
Originally posted by davidw
BktBallRef,

Do you agree that most experience officials call most 3 second lane violations only after a good 4 to 5 seconds passes? If that is true, why not increase the limit to 5 seconds?
Experienced officials work higher level games. I don't see 3 seconds as a problem at those levels. Experienced officials call 3 seconds when it has an effect on the play.

Quote:
I think emphasis would have to be given: "There, we've increased the limit to 5 seconds, NOW CALL IT!" And there exits the possibility that with more '5 second' lane violations called the likelyhood of a decrease in rough play at the post would result?
I've pointed out above why I don't think 5 seconds would work. Allowing an offensive player to post in the lane for 7 or 8 seconds is an eternity. The defender has no chance and will probably foul before a violation is called.

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard
BBR,
Yes I have had this happen "your way" and it goes smoothly but more often than not the coach loses focus on what HIS PLAYERS should be doing and thinks he should be coaching me!
That's okay. I have a way to handle that too.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 02:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
It's the old adage. Give'em an inch and they'll take a foot. All changing the rule to 5 seconds would do is allow the players to be in longer and longer before it's called.
[/B]
The only reason a player would stay in the lane longer than 3 seconds or longer than 5 seconds is because they are allowed to.

Do we use advantage/disadvantage on other violations as well and if not how come?

You said that the rule could be tweaked, well if you don't increase the time, then how else could it be tweaked?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 02:35pm
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Smile Call it early

Call it early, I agree as long as you call it the same late. I think this has potential for another thread!!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
Do we use advantage/disadvantage on other violations as well and if not how come?
Yes, I do. Some don't or at least say they don't. I find that hard to believe. I don't think anyone calls everything they see.

But no, I do not call every travel or palming violation I see. I call advantage/disadvantage. I call the obvious.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:05pm
DJ DJ is offline
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Last night

In last nights game, I did not call three seconds but my partner had 4 three second calls. I have 27 years of experience he has 1 1/2 years of experience. Everyone in the gym, players, coaches and fans thought they were all good calls. He was consistant in his interpetation of the rule. He also called a nice game and handled himself well in a 1 point game. All this gave credibility to his calls. I'm sure his interpetations on a lot of these issues will mature because I gave him this website to add to his itinerary. One of his comments after the game may hit home for some. He was a coach and a good one for quite a few years and he said now that he is a referee he can't believe how tired he gets after a nights work. We work in an area where we will do both the JV and Varsity game and mostly 2 person. Physical conditioning of officials, aha, another thread! This one may hurt!!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:07pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

There are coaches who will tell their players to stay in the lane until the officials finally call it the first time.

True,true,true! and who can blame them?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:11pm
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Re: Call it early

Quote:
Originally posted by DJ
Call it early, I agree as long as you call it the same late. I think this has potential for another thread!!
Agreed. Your early calls should set the tone for the game.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:13pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by davidw
Quote:
... most experience officials call most 3 second lane violations only after a good 4 to 5 seconds passes? If that is true, why not increase the limit to 5 seconds?
Because then they wouldn't call it until 7,8,or 9 seconds.
I usually don't count 3 seconds. It's just a matter of
"He's been in there too long." The longer the time, the harder it would be to estimate. 3 seconds is good. It gives us freedom to easily make the call or not, as needed to clean up the game, or let the flow continue.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:19pm
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Re: Last night

Quote:
Originally posted by DJ

...Physical conditioning of officials, aha, another thread! This one may hurt!!
Ya know, there's nothing better than some cheese-fries, a good custard donut and a coupla cans of Bud to wash it down with after a game.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:33pm
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Re: Re: Last night

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Ya know, there's nothing better than some cheese-fries, a good custard donut and a coupla cans of Bud to wash it down with after a game.
For you health nuts, make it Bud Light! (Blech!)
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 03:51pm
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Re: Re: Last night

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Ya know, there's nothing better than some cheese-fries, a good custard donut and a coupla cans of Bud to wash it down with after a game.
Whaddya mean after the game?

This sounds like a great pre-game snack!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Ya know, there's nothing better than some cheese-fries, a good custard donut and a coupla cans of Bud to wash it down with after a game.
For you health nuts, make it Bud Light! (Blech!)
Or tofu and a diet coke for the yuppie scum of the world.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 04:38pm
DJ DJ is offline
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Smile Peer pressure

I 'll take a diet coke and don't try any peer pressure on me because I finally can handle that, too! Just one more?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 14, 2004, 04:39pm
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For me, three seconds was low on the priority list of calls.

When I am officiating off-ball, which in my experience, is where most three second calls come from, I was more concerned with watching for illegal screens and players battling for post position.

My focus is more toward these things than looking for somebody camping in the lane.
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