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DJ Tue Jan 13, 2004 02:37pm

I wonder if the rules committee has ever discussed changing the three second count to more than three seconds because it seems that the rule interpetation has evolved to be something other than the rule. Next question is what is the right number? Three? Four....? I don't think that three is a reasonable number and seldom see that interpetation.

ChuckElias Tue Jan 13, 2004 04:04pm

Hmmm, DJ, after reading this post and your thread about the 10-second count during FTs, I think you just don't like to count. :)

RecRef Tue Jan 13, 2004 04:11pm

I can say that for me any 3 second call that I make is more like 10,15 or 20 seconds. Unless I am looking through the ball into the lane, I’ve got more to watch for than some kid camping out in it.

DJ Tue Jan 13, 2004 04:36pm

yes
 
Chuck, I don't like to redundantly count!!! It seems like the other numbers in the rule book have real value but this one no longer applies.

DownTownTonyBrown Tue Jan 13, 2004 04:37pm

Picnic and a campout
 
Quote:

Originally posted by RecRef
I can say that for me any 3 second call that I make is more like 10,15 or 20 seconds. Unless I am looking through the ball into the lane, I’ve got more to watch for than some kid camping out in it.
10, 15, 20 Yikes!!!

That is definitely camping.

Many teams can't even hold on to the ball for 20 seconds.

Do you talk to your players during this 10-15-20 seconds?

If you know it is 20, you surely know it is well past 3.

I don't call very many but I have neve seen anyone in the key for even 10 seconds - probably because I call the violation well before that. Honestly I will go several games without needing to call that violation.... "Get out of the key." usually works except for the slowest of players.

DJ Tue Jan 13, 2004 05:01pm

Trouble
 
A few years ago my partner and I went to a very small town for a game. This team had a boys game that was out of town on the same night and as the teams were warming up I turned to my partner and said, "Don, we are in for a long night?" He said, "What is the problem?" I had been looking up in the stands and because the boys had an away game in this small town almost all of the fans were mom's(women). Every time down the court we heard the preverbial "three seconds, foul, traveling - three seconds, foul, traveling!" It was a great play by play of our officiating! I've been acousted about 20 times after games where someone has come out of the stands after a game and wanted a piece of me(always verbal never physical) in the 2000 games I've worked and 18 out of the twenty have been mothers. You've got to love that primordial instinct!!

Adam Tue Jan 13, 2004 06:39pm

I am SOOOO not willing to go there, DJ. LOL

RecRef Tue Jan 13, 2004 09:16pm

Re: Picnic and a campout
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown


10, 15, 20 Yikes!!!

Many teams can't even hold on to the ball for 20 seconds.

Do you talk to your players during this 10-15-20 seconds?

If you know it is 20, you surely know it is well past 3.

I don't call very many but I have neve seen anyone in the key for even 10 seconds - probably because I call the violation well before that. Honestly I will go several games without needing to call that violation.... "Get out of the key." usually works except for the slowest of players. [/B]



Try this the next time you are going to watch a HS game, bring a stopwatch. Time the players in the lane and I think you are going to be in for a surprise.

CYO Butch Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:04am

Coach loves the 3 second call
 
If the officials would call it more often, it would make my life easier when I'm coaching middle school players. Spacing and movement are often foreign to them, but a goo 3 second call can wake them up. Hey, if coaches think they can do your jobs, why not help us do ours? ;-)

wizard Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:54pm

I don't live to make 3 seconds my first call of the game. Especially for the kids. Because that coach will be demanding one called at the other end ASAP. Then it becomes a 3 second-fest. No thanks!

gsf23 Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:58pm

Well..if so many refs just don't want to call it then why not either get rid of it, or expand the time?

I think that was the point that DJ was trying to make.

BktBallRef Wed Jan 14, 2004 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by wizard
I don't live to make 3 seconds my first call of the game. Especially for the kids. Because that coach will be demanding one called at the other end ASAP. Then it becomes a 3 second-fest. No thanks!
Not necessarily.

Call it once early, at both ends, and you'll clean it up for the rest of the game.

There are coaches who will tell their players to stay in the lane until the officials finally call it the first time.

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Well..if so many refs just don't want to call it then why not either get rid of it, or expand the time?

I think that was the point that DJ was trying to make.

It hasn't been eliminated because each year, rough play is a POE. If we allow players to post up in the lane without any restrictions, rough play will continue to be a problem.

davidw Wed Jan 14, 2004 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ
I wonder if the rules committee has ever discussed changing the three second count to more than three seconds because it seems that the rule interpetation has evolved to be something other than the rule. Next question is what is the right number? Three? Four....? I don't think that three is a reasonable number and seldom see that interpetation.
DJ,

I'm with you on this one. I think it is a bit outdated as well. Have not heard whether the Federation is or has experimented with this rule. Anyone else?

As far as the right number. Off the top of my head, 5 seconds seems like it would fit better. It falls in the time perimeters of our other time limits. Emphasis I think would have to be given to call at the 5 second mark not 2-3 seconds later like many of us seem to do now with the current 3 sec. limit.

Coaches, would it change your coaching and play set-ups much to have it at a longer limit such as 5 seconds?

wizard Wed Jan 14, 2004 01:14pm

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by BktBallRef [/B]
Not necessarily.

Call it once early, at both ends, and you'll clean it up for the rest of the game.

[/B][/QUOTE]

BBR,
Yes I have had this happen "your way" and it goes smoothly but more often than not the coach loses focus on what HIS PLAYERS should be doing and thinks he should be coaching me! D)

davidw Wed Jan 14, 2004 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by wizard
I don't live to make 3 seconds my first call of the game. Especially for the kids. Because that coach will be demanding one called at the other end ASAP. Then it becomes a 3 second-fest. No thanks!
Not necessarily.

Call it once early, at both ends, and you'll clean it up for the rest of the game.

There are coaches who will tell their players to stay in the lane until the officials finally call it the first time.

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Well..if so many refs just don't want to call it then why not either get rid of it, or expand the time?

I think that was the point that DJ was trying to make.

It hasn't been eliminated because each year, rough play is a POE. If we allow players to post up in the lane without any restrictions, rough play will continue to be a problem.

BktBallRef,

Do you agree that most experience officials call most 3 second lane violations only after a good 4 to 5 seconds passes? If that is true, why not increase the limit to 5 seconds?

I think emphasis would have to be given: "There, we've increased the limit to 5 seconds, NOW CALL IT!" And there exits the possibility that with more '5 second' lane violations called the likelyhood of a decrease in rough play at the post would result?


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