What do you think is the dumbest rule?

[tomegun]

I could make a long post but I will keep it short: if you don't like going table-side you are scared or unsure of the call you just made.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Kelvin green

The NBA has done it this way for years.

Well, kinda. In the NBA, the calling official doesn't necessarily go table-side. They go to Trail. So they end up table-side for all FT situations; but if the ball is going to be put in play on the opposite sideline, then they stay opposite and become Trail.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Actually he's a PFC

Sorry, I'm from Canada. Is that anything like KFC?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tomegun
I could make a long post but I will keep it short: if you don't like going table-side you are scared or unsure of the call you just made.

I just disagree with this. I don't mind going table-side, but I don't think it's a good idea for HS or for NCAA below D1. It's not about being scared, it's about accountability of the coach who loses it while the calling official is standing in front of him/her.

In the pros and in most D1 games, the game is televised. If a coach goes berzerk, it will be obvious on tape and s/he can be fined or suspended by the league. But in HS, lots of games don't get taped. Even in D3, lots of games don't get taped. So if a coach happens to go off in those games, all you get is a paper report from the official. HS coaches are rarely fined or suspended, in my experience, unless they take the students out drinking after the game.

So I think there is very good reason not to go table-side in many games, but it has nothing to do with being scared. And again, I like the mechanic. It has helped me in the past. But I can see obvious reasons for not using it.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I just disagree with this. I don't mind going table-side, but I don't think it's a good idea for HS or for NCAA below D1. It's not about being scared, it's about accountability of the coach who loses it while the calling official is standing in front of him/her.

In the pros and in most D1 games, the game is televised. If a coach goes berzerk, it will be obvious on tape and s/he can be fined or suspended by the league. But in HS, lots of games don't get taped. Even in D3, lots of games don't get taped. So if a coach happens to go off in those games, all you get is a paper report from the official. HS coaches are rarely fined or suspended, in my experience, unless they take the students out drinking after the game.

So I think there is very good reason not to go table-side in many games, but it has nothing to do with being scared. And again, I like the mechanic. It has helped me in the past. But I can see obvious reasons for not using it.

Communication with coaches is very important. If I make a call and the coach wants to vent I can take the heat. If I blow a call I can tell the coach I blew it. If I blow several calls then the coach kind of has a right to be on me. I have officiated in a state that has used 3-person mechanics for four years and my experience has shown me, without a doubt, that officials who do not want to go table side have a reason for it. If a coach is going to do something to get a T then they will do it whether we go table side or not. I'm not one to throw coaches out or even give coaches a lot of Ts so I'm not saying this for that reason. I may not know the downside of this because I haven't been in a situation when a coach got a T or two without everyone knowing why. I guess if you have a lot of Ts that aren't obvious then that might be a good argument. But Chuck let me say this, going table side probably doesn't effect you one way or the other. I know it doesn't effect me. But, there are many officials that do not want to do it because they are scared and/or cannot communicate with coaches about a call.

[Bart Tyson]

I've never had an official tell me they were scared to face a coach. I do agree at times common sense says to stay away for the better of the game. But, these are few and far between situations. And even in the NCAA we recognize the need to stay away. I like the table side.

[tomegun]

Nobody says it but I know of some officials by name that are afraid of this. When you make some phantom calls you don't really want to talk to a coach. We've all seen this formula: bad call + upset coach = Technical foul. These are the people that would not benefit from going table side. I'm not talking about anyone on this board. Just being on this board shows that we care for the game more than some others IMHO.

[ace]

I started teaching myself this about technicals for a coach.

If I made a crappy call he'll get more leeway than usual. I will after a while ask him to calm down.
Now if I made a good call and everyone and thier momma knew it was the right call; Then yeah. He's got a bout 20 seconds to hold some dignity before I get him for it. I'm not going to give a technical for something I screwed up on. If he's upset at a bad call I made he's got a right to because they're paying for good offiicals and if we dont give them that they should be miffed. This comes back to a freshman game I called in the first few weeks of the season.

Made freethrow - lots of confusion going under the post - I even get confused wrong team (B) steps OOB with the ball. OH WAIT_ WRONG TEAM! TWEET! I Give the ball to the right team and A Coach goes BONKERS! THATS A TECHNICAL FOUL! I said It was my mistake no-time ticked off. He wouldnt not calm down. I warned him fair and square. Finally between quaters my partner and I are discussing another play that happend. Coach starts coming out to center court YELLING! My partner said - Coach please return to the sideline, We will not dicuss anything with you out here. He kept walking and hollering so I whacked him. I reported it. Partner told him he was seatbelted, he shrugged his shoulders and said fair enough.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by tomegun

Communication with coaches is very important. If I make a call and the coach wants to vent I can take the heat.

Tommy, you're missing my point. It's not about the courage or the competance of the officials. It's not about taking heat. It's about accountability on the part of the coaches.

In HS, you have many coaches with little or no professionalism. HS coaches go off all the time with literally no just cause. They misunderstand the call, the rule, the situation, whatever. . . The best way to avoid that situation is to have the calling official go opposite, that's my only point.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Sorry, I'm from Canada. Is that anything like KFC?

I'm sorry you're from Canada too.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

No doubt about it: three seconds in the paint.

[Larks]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy

Worst rule: Alternate Possession.

I was told it was added because most Referee's cannot throw a strait jump ball. Heck thats the easiest thing to do!

Some think the toss is a bad idea and we should go to a coin toss and then use AP. Of course, then we'd all have to practice tossing a coin, catching it and determining if it's heads or tails. Way too tough.



[Edited by Larks on Dec 26th, 2003 at 12:02 AM]

[wizard]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
No doubt about it: three seconds in the paint.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just curious... Why?

[BigJoe]

I would like to discuss my dumbest rules. The first rule is the substitution. I don't understand why the "check in" is necessary. If you are a disqualified player and go in, then the table can buzz you and you can issue a technical foul. Being an ex hockey player, I don't have anything against changing on the fly providing we are working three man!!!
The new two man mechanic for time out positioning makes no sense to me. Luckily we haven't had alot of coaches asking where the ball will be put in play, but the old way seems to make more sense to me. I understand that they are doing this to mirror the three man, but with two man there is alot more distance to cover for both officials.
I could see three seconds in the lane treated like breaking the plane on a throw in. Have a warning and then a technical foul. That would eliminate "camping" and would make for alot more movement through the lane.
I would like for all officials to know the difference between a fumble and a dribble. If you don't know, please check out the definitions and get this call right.
I think that dunking in warmups should be allowed prior to the 10 minute mark. If one team can't dunk, too bad. In most varsity games up here in the sticks, a team has one or two dunkers per team but they can't make it happen in the game. Give the crowd what they came to see. Also, hanging on the rim would be penalized with a T.
Here is a rule I would like to see added. Give the coach one card that reads "I am stupid and don't know the rules". When he violates this rule, he loses his card. If he violates again, he is gone. We can't enforce this for the fans, so I guess we will just have to go with the coach!
Sorry for the ranting, but it is the day after Christmas and I don't have anything else to think about!
Have a Happy New Year!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Larks

Some think the toss is a bad idea and we should go to a coin toss and then use AP. Of course, then we'd all have to practice tossing a coin, catching it and determining if it's heads or tails. Way too tough.



[Edited by Larks on Dec 26th, 2003 at 12:02 AM]

I agree, I cannot believe that I forgot all about alternating possession.

MTD, Sr.