newbie questions/comments

[tutall]

hey~

im a high school senior player and i ref rec league on saturdays and some weeknights. i have several questions about how you ref and would like opinions

at what point do you start to say to physical and how do you handle it. my point, when do you take players aside and tell them to cool it

what exactly are you looking for on the block/charge call. is feet everything, do prior events curb your decision etc. my point, if a team has been playing with excellent body control on D are you more apt to acll a charge

In the case of a blocked shot are you more likely to call a foul on the arm motion or the actual act of hitting the arm? my point, i am one of the better shot blockers in my part of the state. i get called on a TON of hacks becuause i swing at them not even hitting them but the refs see it coming and blow the whistle without seing anything.... i am not saying i never foul but i get called on a lot and the refs we have know i like to block shots... i average 4 a game

btw - this looks like an excellent site

[rainmaker]

Tutall --

My suggestion would be that you study this site. Go back through old threads that cover subjects you need help with. Ask lots of questions. Get a copy of the current rule book for the set of rules you are using -- National Federation, NCAA, FIBA, or whatever. Get a case book, too. Read them over and over and ask questions here when you don't understand something. This will help you with the rules more than anything else.

As far as game management and judgment, the way to learn is to watch lots and lots of other refs work. Learn from the best, learn from the worst. If you want to be a great ref you can, if you work, work, work. And wear your slacks without a belt.

[mick]

Originally posted by tutall
my point, i am one of the better shot blockers in my part of the state.

[Rich]

Originally posted by mick

Why would you roll your eyes, Mick? What if he showed you stats and he WAS one of the better shot blockers?

You can't even say you're good at something anymore without someone thinking you're bragging unnecessarily. OK, I'm going to say it. I'm good at sitting on my chair, reading the paper, and watching NFL football. And I'm going to maintain my advantage by putting in some hard practice time today.

I deserve it. I've had 5 varsity games in 8 days (with 2 days for the flu thrown in for good measure) and I'm a bit tired. I wonder how I'd feel if we had 3-official crews for our games. Or if I could do nothing but work hoops like so many of the guys on TV.

Rich

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why would you roll your eyes, Mick? What if he showed you stats and he WAS one of the better shot blockers?

You can't even say you're good at something anymore without someone thinking you're bragging unnecessarily. OK, I'm going to say it. I'm good at sitting on my chair, reading the paper, and watching NFL football. And I'm going to maintain my advantage by putting in some hard practice time today.

I deserve it. I've had 5 varsity games in 8 days (with 2 days for the flu thrown in for good measure) and I'm a bit tired. I wonder how I'd feel if we had 3-official crews for our games. Or if I could do nothing but work hoops like so many of the guys on TV.

Rich

I am not Mick, nor do I play Mick on TV but I couldn't help an eyeroll of my own when I read tutall's post. Seems to me a player who gets "called on a TON of hacks" would have to pile up a lot of evidence before he could claim to be a great shot blocker...IMO great shot blockers do not send their opponent to the line. As to your point on self promotion, I see that not even you can claim to be one of the better couch potatoes in the state, you draw the line at saying you're just good at it. Subtle difference, but a difference still.

Enjoy the games, take care of that flu - I've been battling something myself for the last week so I feel your pain - and have a great holiday.

[mick]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why would you roll your eyes, Mick? What if he showed you stats and he WAS one of the better shot blockers?

You can't even say you're good at something anymore without someone thinking you're bragging unnecessarily.

Easy to say. Harder to do.

[Rich]

You're a man of few words

I've seen a lot of officials anticipate contact on blocked shots around here, especially at lower levels. Most times when a kid "winds up" to block a shot, the shooter goes to the line -- even when there's no contact.

Many times, the official will give some kind of BS explanation like "he got him with the body." If it's clean up top and there's a LITTLE contact down low, then we shouldn't be bailing out the shooter by putting him at the line.

Just one of my pet peeves, I guess -- it's hard enough playing good defense!

Maybe the original poster will come back and explain exactly what kind of contact he is making with the other player when blocking these shots -- assuming he is honest with us, of course.

Rich

[canuckrefguy]

I'm with Mick on this one...

This is the kind of thing I was talking about a while back when I said I'm leery of all these new posters (players and coaches )who basically come here looking for vindication, or some kind of proof that their officials are bad, or they got jobbed, or whatever.

Penn. Coach, and Hawks Coach are exceptions, but more and more now, as this site becomes more well-known, I think we really have to view some of these threads with grain of salt.

True, you see a lot of "anticipated contact" fouls at lower levels - that's why those officials are working lower levels. Then they get experience, and they (hopefully) don't do it as often.

Like I always say...

[mick]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
You're a man of few words

Rich,
I don't know many words that can be posted.
With one exception, that I can presently recall, the really good athletes never say, "I am the greatest!", to people they don't know.

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Maybe the original poster will come back and explain exactly what kind of contact he is making with the other player when blocking these shots -- assuming he is honest with us, of course.

Rich

"i get called on a TON of hacks becuause i swing at them not even hitting them but the refs see it coming and blow the whistle without seing anything...." - Tutall


The high one already wrote: "never touched 'em".
mick

[tutall]

honestly if you really want to know my stats.... i have 17 blocks in 6 games, blocked one of the top 5 sophomores in the NATION, and never block my own player. i come across the lane, jump, and block after it is out of the hands. again on here people *** U MEING that i fouled a guy just like in the game.

My name is Mitch Wolfe if you really want to read the articles that prove my blocking.... i couldnt find them all

http://www.kpcnews.com/main.asp?Sear...ctionID=98&S=1

NEW HAVEN — If Angola boys basketball followers did not give themselves enough time to arrive to New Haven promptly after a 50-mile drive, they missed all they needed to see.

The Hornets made the Bulldogs take a step back with full-court zone pressure in forcing mistake after mistake to help build a 29-6 lead after one quarter and not look back in a 73-48 non-conference victory at Armstrong Arena.

Angola (4-2) wasn’t swarming in the Bulldogs’ faces to force around 10 turnovers in the first quarter. Individual players took care of their areas and did their jobs, often creating easy scoring opportunites on the other end, including two Blaise Henry dunks in the first half.

“This gave us a good chance to work on our press, and everybody let their teammates work,” Hornets coach Greg Holmes said. “It’s not that we always got steals from it, but we put enough pressure on and got to the angles where we would force mistakes if we stayed patient with our press.”

That pressure helped temper the aggressiveness from a young New Haven team without any seniors. The Bulldogs (0-4) often opted for short fallaway jumpers in the paint instead of attacking the goal with lay-ups. That explained why they only went to the foul line three times.

The Hornets did what they had to do and Holmes rotated the guys regularly to where they will be fresh and ready to go for Friday’s home Northeast Corner Conference tilt with Westview.

“We clogged the middle with Mitch (Wolfe) and Blaise and that opened up the outside for us. Then we made some shots and opened them up,” Holmes said. “Mitch played a pretty good game.”

Wolfe, a 6-foot-4 senior, had his best game as a Hornet in his year plus six games with the program. He had eight points, six rebounds and three blocked shots in extended minutes.

Wolfe has started in all six games, but 6-foot sixth man Mike Forester usually sees most of the minutes in the post between the two.

Holmes was also pleased with the contributions of seniors Andrew Miller and Garry May, the seventh and eighth guys off the bench in the Hornets’ eight-man rotation. Miller had nine points and three rebounds. May had four points.

“May did a pretty good job. He was consistent on the perimeter,” Holmes said.

Henry paced Angola with 14 points. Scott Hack had all 12 of his points in the first half. Cody Monroe had all 11 of his points in the first 16 minutes.



i couldnt find the other ones... anyways, im not getting on here to bash refs as i know they try their best but more and more i see refs, mainly newer ones, make the call before anything happens. btw, thanks for all the warm welcomes and positive responses

[mick]

Originally posted by tutall
.... “Mitch played a pretty good game.”

Wolfe, a 6-foot-4 senior, had his best game as a Hornet in his year plus six games with the program. He had eight points, six rebounds and three blocked shots in extended minutes.

Wolfe has started in all six games, but 6-foot sixth man Mike Forester usually sees most of the minutes in the post between the two....

tutall,
Keep having fun in your senior year.
mick

[just another ref]

Originally posted by tutall
honestly if you really want to know my stats.... i have 17 blocks in 6 games
Wolfe has started in all six games, but 6-foot sixth man Mike Forester usually sees most of the minutes in the post between the two.

How many fouls in these 6 games? Is foul trouble the reason the other guy gets more minutes? Whether the calls are good or bad if they continue to go against you I suggest that you consider changing something.

[tutall]

mick - i am having a lot of fun, thats not the problem

just another - the other guy is getting most of the minutes for a couple reasons.... first, we have not played any big teams yet so all they have are little quick guys and i am 6'5" 230 so it isnt easy for me to keep up... in the games where they have a big guy i usually play most of the game. plus, the other guy is te starting quarterback and his dad is a big shot in town and politics at angola high school play a huge part in everything. Im not saying he isnt good but... i have had maybe 10 fouls all together but at least most of them are on blocks. one more minor reason is i just moved here last year and am still trying to get the hang of their system. they have totally different philosophies on defense especially. my last school we didnt believe in defense.... it was let them score so we could get the ball back sooner.

[tomegun]

Tutall I have some advice for you.

First of all have fun just like Mick said. I have a varsity game tonight and another one on Friday. You will never, ever have your senior year of high school back so you should really cherish that.

If you get called for a foul then it isn't a blocked shot. It is a foul.

The last thing I want to say is about the spirit of competition. This is something I've seen from some neighbor kids. If you think you are better than the next man quit complaining about it and work hard so your coach has not choice but to put you in the game. So many times kids are getting minutes because they are the social leader when one of their friends is on the bench with more talent but less drive. If you think you can't keep up, work on your speed and you coordination so you can be on the floor. Remember, they are quicker on one end but you are taller on the other end. That is the good part about basketball. They have an advantage that they use for two or three points and then they have to immediately play defense and your team can use your advantage. You should strive to be an asset on D and the advantage on O.

Wow, I'm done now. I really love this game!

[mick]

Originally posted by tutall
mick - i am having a lot of fun, thats not the problem

just another - the other guy is getting most of the minutes for a couple reasons.... first, we have not played any big teams yet so all they have are little quick guys and i am 6'5" 230 so it isnt easy for me to keep up... in the games where they have a big guy i usually play most of the game. plus, the other guy is te starting quarterback and his dad is a big shot in town and politics at angola high school play a huge part in everything. Im not saying he isnt good but... i have had maybe 10 fouls all together but at least most of them are on blocks. one more minor reason is i just moved here last year and am still trying to get the hang of their system. they have totally different philosophies on defense especially. my last school we didnt believe in defense.... it was let them score so we could get the ball back sooner.

Tutall,
Get in shape. Get in the game. I was an almost-6'-0" quick guy that hated to see 6'5" Big Guys. And, it isn't one man you gotta beat out in order to start, ... it's 4! And, quit worrying about politics.

Ask the coach watcha gotta do, then do it! Practice harder. Get serious. Run faster (Get off your heels and onto those toes). Hit the floor for loose balls. Coaches love that! And smile while you are doing it. No poutin'. Be ready, be serious, and go to work.

Playing no defense in your former school could be the reason you are fouling more. If a team doesn't play "D" the refs have an easy time of it.
When you swat a ball, do not contact your opponent with the follow-through. When you go up to swat, aim at the spot the ball is going to be, well off the hand and higher than the shooter's hand. What you will be doing is eliminating the close-call question by creating space.

If you have the ups, a flying hand is gonna disrupt a shot and create a miss and who gets the board 80% of the time? Your team.
Although the crowd loves the block out-of-bounds, who gets the ball then?

Now quit worrying about a few blocks and get to work on speed, endurance, hustle and get all the garbage points you can. Ain't no 6-footer gonna get that ball, cuz It's Your's !

mick