Artificial Noisemakers - Page 2

tutall · #16 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 20, 2003, 03:05pm

whats the big point of noisemakers? im not being a nuissance i just dont see the point of making them against the rules

BktBallRef · #17 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 20, 2003, 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tutall
whats the big point of noisemakers? im not being a nuissance i just dont see the point of making them against the rules

Here's one example: Some high school gyms are incredibly small. Imagine a 30 kids with horns, thundersticks, cow bells, and 2 litre Coke bottles with pennies in them, seated behind the opponent's bench. They could, and probably would, make it impossible for the team communicate during a time-out.

Also, it's gone to the extreme in that people were bringing air horns and sirens into gyms.

tutall · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 01:03am

i can see the airhorns and stuff but being a player myself, noisemakers make the game more fun. i love playing in a loud gym with people going crazy... it is adrenaline pumping and a lot of fun.... o well too bad i cant make the rules... two things would go for sure.

the double foul and hand checking in the post

BktBallRef · #19 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 01:26am

Nothing wrong with loud gyms and people going crazy. But I can do without the artificial noise.

What's wrong with the double foul?

rainmaker · #20 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 02:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Nothing wrong with loud gyms and people going crazy. But I can do without the artificial noise.

What's wrong with the double foul?

and, tutall, how would you get rid of hand-checking?

tutall · #21 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 09:02am

bktballref - i hate the double foul beacuse someone has to start it. whoever hits first is the guilty one. if a guy retaliates then it is a foul on him but if you get the first there is no double foul in my book anyways.

rainmaker - putting your hands on them is hard not to do when you are 6 feet from the basket. it gives leverage and you can tell which way they are going. as long as it doesnt impede progres i dont see anything wrong with having a hand on them. out front i believe this is different because a hand can slow them down on drives but if someone has their back to the basket they arent looking for speed. im not neccesarily saying they should get rid of it i just dont like it.

BktBallRef · #22 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 10:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by tutall
bktballref - i hate the double foul beacuse someone has to start it. whoever hits first is the guilty one. if a guy retaliates then it is a foul on him but if you get the first there is no double foul in my book anyways.

Not necessarily. The contact can be legal but then escalate. A double foul can be a great tool to clean up the post.

Quote:

rainmaker - putting your hands on them is hard not to do when you are 6 feet from the basket. it gives leverage and you can tell which way they are going. as long as it doesnt impede progres i dont see anything wrong with having a hand on them. out front i believe this is different because a hand can slow them down on drives but if someone has their back to the basket they arent looking for speed. im not neccesarily saying they should get rid of it i just dont like it.

See the part I underlined? That's a foul. When you gain an advantage by placing your hand on the opponent, it's a foul. Should the post player who's being fronted be able to put his hands in the defender's back? No, because it places the defender at a disadvantage.

Sorry but you're not looking at this from an arbitrary view. You're looking at it as a player who wants to be able to do things the rules forbid.

David B · #23 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 11:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by tutall
but if someone has their back to the basket they arent looking for speed. im not neccesarily saying they should get rid of it i just dont like it. [/B]

If its in the post and he has hands on him, I don't think that's what I would determine a "hand check".

That would simply be a foul, offensive or defensive.

A hand check would be as you had stated above, out front and it has to be a foul simply because it gives the defense an advantage.

But in the post, I see players all the time grabbing their opponent and pushing their opponents. Its either a foul or not.

Thanks
David

tutall · #24 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 03:22pm

people you arent seeing what i am saying.... im not looking at it from an arbitrary view as i stated before this is what I would eliminate.. im not saying it should or shouldnt be but it is what I would do. i am a big player and thanks to the person that said i should get in shape.... thanks for the words of encouragement. anyways, again on the double foul.... someone has to cross the line. usually one person pushes, the other pushes back, they get tangled up....BOOM double foul.... someone still had to push first. Also i am not saying i would like to lean on the guy and weight him down it is a simple hand on the side or something that doesnt harm anyone.... AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED i am saying it is what i would change

BktBallRef · #25 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tutall
AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THIS SHOULD BE CHANGED i am saying it is what i would change

And I'm saying it shouldn't be changed.

BktBallRef · #26 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by David B
If its in the post and he has hands on him, I don't think that's what I would determine a "hand check".

That would simply be a foul, offensive or defensive.

If he has his hands in his back, it's hand checking. There's nothing that state handchecking occurs only beyond the key. If he's pushing him while those hands are in the back, then you can call it a push. But the hands on the player cam first.

And that's a hand check.

TPS2859 · #27 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 05:01pm

If you dont like the double foul then dont call it! That is something that YOU can change. If you say that someone had to make contact first, then call that first contact! As far as hand checking, touching, or what ever you want to call it, it is to gain an advantage over the other player 99% of the time.

davidw · #28 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 07:05pm

TPS,

tutall is a player not an offical. He's never going to call/not call the dbl foul or handcheck til he takes off the jersey and puts on the stripes .

Ref Daddy · #29 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 07:39pm

Easy rule:

Both hands on player - instant foul
Wrist bend back indicates pushing - foul
Leaving a hand on the player - foul

Reaching out and occassionally feeling / measuring / tracing opponent - OK

BktBallRef · #30 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 23, 2003, 12:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
Reaching out and occassionally feeling / measuring / tracing opponent - OK

The NF doesn't agree with you.