sub / too many quarters

BOBBYMO · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 09:59am

I had a sittuation last night that I have never ran into in 12 years of officiating. Between 3rd and 4th quarter after the 1st buzzer a coach sends a player in to sub. I catch the coach and tell him the the player has to wait till the 1st dead ball as she reported too late and that I needed the girl who finished the last quarter to come back into the game. The coach told me that he couldn't do that as the player who she was subbing for would then have played in too many quarters.
I could only think of three options that they had....

1. Keep that girl in and start the quarter with a T ( although I am not sure that I can keep a girl in knowing that she played in too many quarters).

2. Start the quarter with 4 players and the sub could could enter on the next dead ball.

3. Coach could call a time out to be able to get the girl checked into the game.

I think these are my only 3 options.. Can anyone else think of any more????

Rich · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 10:08am

The practical one. Quietly allow the sub.

Rich

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 10:49am

I'm with Rich.
If the coach has that player inelligible (for any reason), don't force him to break a rule.
mick

Mark Padgett · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 11:06am

The best response (IMHO) is "OK, coach. She can come in. Please be more aware of these situations in the future. Thanks."

Rich · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 11:52am

I think this is an excellent question because it involves a game management issue.

I know people that would assess a technical foul or make that player play. Technically, by rule, it may be the right call. However, IMHO, as far as game management is concerned it is the worst thing to do.

I had a player designated to start the second half in my game last week who didn't get off the trainer's table in time (he was getting taped). The coach came to me (I was the U near his bench with the R at midcourt) and told me the situation. I told him that he could definitely substitute someone else in at that point. By the time I got that sentence out the original kid was coming toward the bench, ready to play. The coach thanked me. A small thing, sure, but small things add up when it comes to building a good relationship on the floor.

The spirit of the rule is to keep coaches from putting in last-minute subs to gain an unfair advantage over the other team. Keeping that in mind, you really should allow the sub in this situation.

Rich

JeffRobinson · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 11:59am

I was talking with an official who said his partner got into the same situation last night. I think the Time Out or starting with 4 are probably correct in the rule book, but personally I do not think they are trying to break the intent of the rule. I would allow the sub. I think you cause a lot less problems that way.

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 12:25pm

This is one of those places where external policies on playing time cause problems with how you normally do things in NF. Definitely allow the sub.

tharbert · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 12:27pm

This comes from league rules and has no official stipulation at the game management level. The penalty would be assessed through the league. I don't think you can argue assessing a T for using a disqualified player since the player was not disqualified by NFHS rules.

I'm with Mark. Quietly let this go with a whispered warning.

zebraman · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 12:33pm

I agree. Let the sub in. Common sense and not violating the spirit and intent of the sub rule.
Z

BOBBYMO · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 01:51pm

Last night when this happened it was about a 30 point game so I did let the sub come in and told both coaches why I allowed it to happen that way. Both coaches were cool about with it.

I agree with all of your answers but please let me know if you would change your answers if this would happen in a close game in the last minute of the state championship game????????

zebraman · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BOBBYMO
Last night when this happened it was about a 30 point game so I did let the sub come in and told both coaches why I allowed it to happen that way. Both coaches were cool about with it.

I agree with all of your answers but please let me know if you would change your answers if this would happen in a close game in the last minute of the state championship game????????

How would it be possible for a player to play in too many quarters in a state championship game?

Z

CLAY · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 01:54pm

the coach has made a mistake, you tell him/her to take a timeout and correct his or her mistake. You do not change the rules of the game because a coach made mistake.

BOBBYMO · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 01:58pm

Great question Z..... You got me on that one.... Ok My bad.. lets say it was just a close game regular season.

Hawks Coach · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 02:07pm

There is no reason not to just get the sub in and move on. Worry about the things that really matter. This is not something to get worked up about or to get really technical about. If a coach just wanted to sub for the sake of subbing, having them wait until the next dead ball is the right thing to do, and that is what would normally happen. This is a sub that is forced by an external policy not addressed in NFHS rules.

MN 3 Sport Ref · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 02:14pm

What happens when the opposing coach (home team) and the official scorer (also from home team) are making a big deal of the situation and know by rule a T must be acessed. I too, would go with the preventative maintenance in most situations but what about in the above situation?