sub / too many quarters

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
This is a sub that is forced by an external policy not addressed in NFHS rules.

True, but the only legal way to allow the sub is for the team to take a TO. Why not just tell the coach that? That way the coach can decide whether to burn the TO, since as Clay pointed out, it's the coach's own fault for being in the situation.

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

True, but the only legal way to allow the sub is for the team to take a TO. Why not just tell the coach that? That way the coach can decide whether to burn the TO, since as Clay pointed out, it's the coach's own fault for being in the situation.

Chuck nailed it!! That is the way we handled the situation I just posted. The coach thought a technical should have been accessed as soon as she reported but I told him she was not a player in that quarter until the ball becam live and since the TO allowed a sub, he was out of luck. he seemed to understand that...

[CYO Butch]

One of our divisions has a participation rule that says each player must play one full quarter without interuption, and must sit out one entire quarter (you must have at least 7 to start game for it to work). If you don't abide by the rule, it becomes a forfeit. If a player shows up late, it is conceivable that the coach looks down the bench and sees him/her for the first time (late players tend to sneak in to avoid getting yelled at) and realizes that he/she has to get into the beginning of the quarter or face a forfeit. If it happened to me, I would probably accept having to burn a TO, but I would be really upset at having to wait for the next dead ball and thus break the participation rule. That would be even more harsh than getting T'd up (which I might earn if I wasn't allowed to get the player in the game).

[Rich]

Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
What happens when the opposing coach (home team) and the official scorer (also from home team) are making a big deal of the situation and know by rule a T must be acessed. I too, would go with the preventative maintenance in most situations but what about in the above situation?

The official scorer isn't going to be making any deal about it. I would tell the other coach, however, that he would be given the same consideration if he were in the same situation. After that, the ball would be in play.

Rich

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

The official scorer isn't going to be making any deal about it. I would tell the other coach, however, that he would be given the same consideration if he were in the same situation. After that, the ball would be in play.

Rich

Rich:

Had this happen in a game earlier this year and IT WAS the official scorer who made sure the home coach knew about it and exactly what the penalty should be for it. It was he that kept me from simply bringing in the sub and quietly explaning the situation to the offending coach.

[Rich]

That scorer wouldn't prevent anything -- that's what I meant. He can tell the coach all he wants, but he's just a scorer. They grow on trees.

Bring in the sub and put the ball in play. Hard for the coach to continue complaining if the ball is in play.

Rich

[mick]

Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
[B
....IT WAS the official scorer who made sure the home coach knew about it and exactly what the penalty should be for it. It was he that kept me from simply bringing in the sub and quietly explaning the situation to the offending coach. [/B]

Whatchgonna do?
Ya try to be a nice guy....
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
Chuck nailed it!! That is the way we handled the situation I just posted. The coach thought a technical should have been accessed as soon as she reported but I told him she was not a player in that quarter until the ball becam live and since the TO allowed a sub, he was out of luck. he seemed to understand that...

Why is it a T?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
That scorer wouldn't prevent anything -- that's what I meant. He can tell the coach all he wants, but he's just a scorer. They grow on trees.

I had no idea that our own Mark Dexter was a sapling!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The OhioHSAA uses a quarter rule in basketball. A high school player (freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior) is allowed only 80 quarters of play during the regular season with a maximum of five quarters per day (in a freshmen/jr. varsity/varsity tripleheader a freshmen could play one quarter two quarters in the freshmen game, one quarter in the jr. varsity game, and two in the varsity game; a soph., jr., or sr. could play a total of five quarters between the jr. varsity and varsity games). While NFHS rules consider any overtime period to be an extension of the fourth quarter, the OhioHSAA also considers any overtime period of the varsity game to be an extension of a player's fifth quarter if the player has already played five quarters that day.

Having spewed out all of that gobbledy gook, I would have to say that by rule, that coach is going to have to burn a timeout if he wants to change players. But the real problem is that if the coach decides he does not want to burn a timeout and is willing to take the technical foul for using an ineligible player (and in Ohio the foul is a flagrant technical foul for playing six quarters and the player would be ejected from the game and disqualified for two more games) I have trouble knowingly letting an ineligible player enter the game.

Since quarter rules are uniquely a StateHSAA rule, I would think that each state is going to have to develope its own casebook plays for the situation being discussed in this thread.

[Kelvin green]

My 20 dinar.

98.767% of the world has no idea that the ub has to be there prior to the horn. 57% of the officiating community forgets we have the rule....

The rule was put into play to keep the game going and not have a ton of subs after the horn....

So get her in and get the game going... No way is anyone going to buy a T... Force him to burn a time out? Naw...

Dont waste time expalining it to anyone...Get her in get the game moving... If the opposing coach pisses and moans tell him he can sub a player after the horn the next time... but he'll be doing that after we have been up and down the floor 6 times...

Are we our own worst enemy?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman

How would it be possible for a player to play in too many quarters in a state championship game?

Z

Let's see... Nasty blizzard cancels first two days of tourney, games are re-scheduled so that semi-finals, and finals are both same day. No one remembers to make an exception for the five-quarters rule.

Okay, it's a stretch.

[ace]

Freshman Girls B Tourny. These teams were assemebeld for girls who we'rent getting enough play time and they're a few select tournys for them this season. Well.... half-way though first quater I notice an extra girl on the bench - Coach has her at the table - book says "shes not in there" (very quietly too - usually the book hollars something like that) I asked the coach how the girl was left out and she said - her grandmother was in the hospital this morning and she wasnt on the bus so i forgot about her and yeah- its a tech so just give it to me." Very quietly i tlel the book to add her in the book. the other coacch kinna knew what was going on and just kinna gave me a nod of approval at what I had done. At the end of the game as I was walking to the table the other teams coach came up to me and said" when you get to the varsity level and u need a pref list, let me know because that was a good thing you did." Jokingling she added "If i wasnt so impressed by your officiating I woulda been raising hell" -

I agree with an earlier post... pick you battles.

I do realize I should have given the technical to the team because it is my job to enforce the rules mandated to us by the NFHS and the local associations... but yeah

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ace
...the other teams coach came up to me and said" when you get to the varsity level and u need a pref list, let me know because that was a good thing you did." ...

The cynical old b@stards around here might remind you that if you believe them when they say you done good you gotta believe them when they say you suck.

BTW, you done good.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BOBBYMO
I had a sittuation last night that I have never ran into in 12 years of officiating. Between 3rd and 4th quarter after the 1st buzzer a coach sends a player in to sub. I catch the coach and tell him the the player has to wait till the 1st dead ball as she reported too late and that I needed the girl who finished the last quarter to come back into the game. The coach told me that he couldn't do that as the player who she was subbing for would then have played in too many quarters.
I could only think of three options that they had....

1. Keep that girl in and start the quarter with a T ( although I am not sure that I can keep a girl in knowing that she played in too many quarters).

2. Start the quarter with 4 players and the sub could could enter on the next dead ball.

3. Coach could call a time out to be able to get the girl checked into the game.

I think these are my only 3 options.. Can anyone else think of any more????

I think that the thread is getting away from the problem of the original posting, and that is that there are some states that have a quarter rule.

1) Head Coach A realized that he had a player, A1, that could not play the rest of the game due to his state's quarters played rule. Unfortunately, he realized this when it was too late, by rule, to have A6, substitute for A1.

2) The best way to look at this problem is to treat it no differently than if we were notified by the Scorer just before the start of the quarter that A1 had five fouls. The timeout period between the third and fourth quarters are over, but we are going to have Team A replace A1 with A6. There is no penalty involved. We need to remember that Coach A was trying to do the correct thing by replacing a player who he knew to be no longer eligible to play in the game.