3 SECOND RULE HELP

[PAT THE REF]

I need some help. I referee in a local recreational league - i referee middle school (7&8th grade) girls. It seems that there is one or two girls that always setup in the key when their team is on offense and they dont move. In one game i called 3-second violations about 20-25 times. The coaches & spectators were aplauding me for calling it due to the facts that the girl was just sitting in their & getting all the rebounds. I was then told by the coordinator that the girls mothers called him and he told me to either wait 10 seconds & then call a 3 second violation or dont call it at all. I appealed to the recreation board and they are stumped. Can any one help me? (Sorry for the long post)

[BktBallRef]

I'm sorry but I don't undertand. Why is the recreation board "stumped?" Why is the coordinator telling you to wait 10 seconds? What is he/she concerned with what the girls' mom says?

Her's the rule for the coordinator, the mom, and the girls who can't get her big *** outta the lane.

9-7
ART. 1 A player shall not remain for three seconds in that part of his/her free-throw lane between the end line and the farther edge of the free-throw line while the ball is in control of his/her team in his/her frontcourt.
ART. 2 The three-second restriction applies to a player who has only one foot touching the lane boundary. The line is part of the lane. All lines designating the free-throw lane, but not lane-space marks and neutral-zone marks, are part of the lane.

ART. 3 Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.
PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

[PAT THE REF]

The main thing was that there was really no fouls and the coordinator was getting angry that - that was all i was calling. I was trying to even LOOK for fouls but there really was none. (which is a miracle) but everyone on the board didnt know what to do... I have another ? about the rule though - If a girl is in the zone for 2 seconds, moves her feet 1 on the line, 1 in the zone for another 2 seconds - that is a 3 second violation right? Since the lines are apart of the zone?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by PAT THE REF
If a girl is in the zone for 2 seconds, moves her feet 1 on the line, 1 in the zone for another 2 seconds - that is a 3 second violation right? Since the lines are apart of the zone?

Yes - the lines are part of the lane. Also, note that if a player is standing with one foot in and one foot out (they are considered in) and they lift the foot that is in and then put it back down, the count does not stop.

Ask your coordinator what other rules he doesn't want you to enforce.

[Kelvin green]

My two cents--

Calling 3 seconds too many times is a disruptor that just stops the game. In a lowere level girls game tell the girls to get out of the paint, or move it, if they dont then blow the whistle... You'll be more like 4 or 5 but you may get her to move around. If you have a decent rapport with the coach (have him Coach his girls) Coach is a verb as well as a noun. I'm sure he does not want to turn the ball over that much and he haters the disruption to the flow

[rainmaker]

Pat --

Even places where they want a ref to be lenient on 3-seconds, they let you call it by 5 or 6. Tell the board that you are expecting these girls to move up the ranks, and they need to get used to a higher level of play. Tell the mother that 8th grade girls that camp in the key don't get college scholarships. If these girls are getting a lot of rebounds, they are gaining an advantage and it is illegal. They need to be called on it so that they learn how to rebound from outside the key. And as Padgett said, ask them what other rules they want to leave unenforced.

[PAT THE REF]

Thank you all for helping me w. this... my season starts in 1 week. I have been brushing up on my rule books and i have 3 ?'s....

1)What exactly consitutes a moving (illegal) pick? (screen?)

2)What exactly consitutes a offensive foul? I have been having problems seeing through the academy award winning falls.

3)Where is the best place to ref a game if u have to do it by yourself? In the middle of the court? Sideline?

Thank You

[BktBallRef]

Pat, do you own a rule book?

[PAT THE REF]

Yes i do own a rule book = but can someone just help me by answering those 3?'s above.......... Im a new referee and i just want to get some referee's opinions on what to look for

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by PAT THE REF
Yes i do own a rule book = but can someone just help me by answering those 3?'s above.......... Im a new referee and i just want to get some referee's opinions on what to look for

The best way to answer the first two questions is to refer you to rule 10-6. Study it very well. Then read 4-19. Then come back here and ask very specific questions.

If I type fast enough can I beat Tony to this answer?

YEA!!! For once...

[oc]

Originally posted by PAT THE REF

3)Where is the best place to ref a game if u have to do it by yourself? In the middle of the court? Sideline?

Thank You

Sideline. I have heard some argue stay on the same side as the coaches so you all have the same bad angle. When the ball goes OOB on the other side guess quick and put the ball in before anyone complains. Others argue stay on the far side and ask the coaches for help on their side. I prefer the first.

Free throws-don't administer the ball from under the hoop. If the play reverses down court you get stuck behind 10 players.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PAT THE REF
Yes i do own a rule book = but can someone just help me by answering those 3?'s above.......... Im a new referee and i just want to get some referee's opinions on what to look for

The question wasn't meant to be an indictment for asking questions. I just wanted to be sure that you have access to one. Also, get a Case Book. Many of the plays that you'll come across can be found in the Case Book.

Read and study your rule book every night before you go to bed. Try to see how the rules affect a play, rather than just reading it. You should be able to get through it within a couple of weeks. Pay special attention to Rule 4, Definitions. If you don't have a basic understanding of the Definitions, you'll have trouble understanding the game. Most of the information about violations is found under Rule 9. Feel free to ask questions about what you don't understand.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 25th, 2003 at 11:19 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

The question was meant to be an indictment for asking questions. I just wanted to be sure that you have access to one.

I can't edit your post for you, Tony, but do you mean "was" or "wasn't" above? I think the latter.

[Hawks Coach]

I am reading a 3 seconds post and nobody is jumping in saying that they never call 3 seconds. I can't tell you how many times I have read that on this board. Now of course, 10 seconds is something few would ignore (even, I hope, our diehard no-3-secs crowd).

At a lower level, letting them know rather than stopping play for every 3 secs violation is a good idea. Even when people camp in the lane at a higher level, it is never usually as bad as in rec leagues. Warn them and they usually move. But some may not move because they may never have heard of this rule, especially if the league isn't enforcing it. If warning them doesn't get them to move, then you need to call it and let the player know what was called. Then continue with the warnings, and they'll start paying attention.

The idea is not to let them have an unfair advantage, while at the same time keeping the game flowing. As for them playing at a higher level, I don't know how ball is in your area, but if they are still camping in the lane excessively (even after multiple three sec calls), I have to believe we are talking a high level of inexperience - a player that won't be doing HS ball in our county! they wouldn't be experienced enough - they better be 6 feet tall!

[PAT THE REF]

Whell, just to let everyone know & to restate that i wasnt looking for the 3 seconds call but the game was really boring and during each qtr. no team got into the bonus (1&1) situation. But the girl was just camping there. The way i always call 3 seconds is i count 1, then 2-3-& 4 with visiable counts. After 4 i swing my arm 1 more time. *(so i really call 5 seconds for the 3 seconds but they still complain.) Any suggestions¿ I understand that it stops the game and it is a hassle to call it.