Administrative Technical Fouls

[Scrapper1]

IAABO no longer supplies members with the FED rulebook, so I have not seen an actual rulebook in the last two seasons. In this season's IAABO Handbook, there's a case play about Administrative Ts. The situation is: Team A adds a name to the scorebook with 9 minutes left in pre-game warm-ups. Then 4 minutes later, Team B changes the number of one of its designated starters.

The ruling states that "Since the penalties offset, neither team is awarded free throws".

I looked at the '20-'21 book and I can't find a corresponding case play; and the PENALTY section of 10-1 doesn't mention that these would be categorized as simultaneous fouls.

Have I just forgotten an obvious rule or case that says any time both teams commit an equal number of pre-game administrative fouls, that they offset? I feel like this is something that I really should know, but I'm drawing a total blank.

[JRutledge]

Isn't the Handbook with the rules and mechanics?

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

IAABO no longer supplies members with the FED rulebook, so I have not seen an actual rulebook in the last two seasons. In this season's IAABO Handbook, there's a case play about Administrative Ts. The situation is: Team A adds a name to the scorebook with 9 minutes left in pre-game warm-ups. Then 4 minutes later, Team B changes the number of one of its designated starters.

The ruling states that "Since the penalties offset, neither team is awarded free throws".

I looked at the '20-'21 book and I can't find a corresponding case play; and the PENALTY section of 10-1 doesn't mention that these would be categorized as simultaneous fouls.

Have I just forgotten an obvious rule or case that says any time both teams commit an equal number of pre-game administrative fouls, that they offset? I feel like this is something that I really should know, but I'm drawing a total blank.

Per NFHS Case Book Ruling or Rules Interpretation (I do not have my books in front of me.) Administrative TFs during the Pre-Game Period (and I am also going to say Halftime because I have not seen a Ruling for such a Situation during Haĺftime but I would consider the Pre-Game Period the same as an Inermission which is what Halftime is considered) are considered to be Double Fouls, not False Double Fouls.

MTD, Sr.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Per NFHS Case Book Ruling or Rules Interpretation (I do not have my books in front of me.) Administrative TFs during the Pre-Game Period (and I am also going to say Halftime because I have not seen a Ruling for such a Situation during Haĺftime but I would consider the Pre-Game Period the same as an Inermission which is what Halftime is considered) are considered to be Double Fouls, not False Double Fouls.

MTD, Sr.

I think so, too, but I need a reference if you can dig out your book.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Isn't the Handbook with the rules and mechanics?

Peace

IAABO produces its own Handbook now because they no longer have a contract with NFHS to reproduce the FED rulebook. We used to get the official NFHS Rulebook and Casebook, but that became too expensive, I guess.

So IAABO is producing a "rules guide" which includes play scenarios, but does not directly quote the FED's books. The Handbook even includes a disclaimer at the front that essentially says that it's not the complete rule book.

IAABO has been writing its own mechanics manual for years, and that is also included in the Handbook.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So IAABO is producing a "rules guide" which includes play scenarios, but does not directly quote the FED's books. The Handbook even includes a disclaimer at the front that essentially says that it's not the complete rule book.

Last two years I ordered my own NFHS rulebook and NFHS casebook from the NFHS.

With shipping, cost me $37 for the most recent copies.

I declare it on my income tax as as business expense and at least I won't have to pay any income tax on it.

I highly recommend my accountants:

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Per NFHS Case Book Ruling or Rules Interpretation ... Administrative TFs during the Pre-Game Period ... are considered to be Double Fouls, not False Double Fouls.

Agree with Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on both his interpretation, and that there exists, somewhere out there, a case book ruling, or an annual interpretation.

But I can't find it.

How about little help from Nevadaref, the "Interpretation King"?

[Nevadaref]

We discussed this in Dec 2016.

3.4.3 SITUATION C: Starter, A1, has brought the wrong uniform and with eight minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, switches with A15 and now is wearing a legal jersey but a new number. With two minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, it is discovered that starter, B1, is wearing a different jersey than indicated in the scorebook. It is confirmed that a wrong number was provided to the official scorer and a change is made to reflect the correct number in the scorebook. RULING: Both Team A and B are charged with an administrative technical foul for changing a number in the scorebook and will begin the game with one team foul toward the bonus. No free throws are awarded and the game will begin at the point of interruption, which is the opening jump ball. COMMENT: When each team is assessed one technical foul prior to the game, a double technical foul has occurred, as this is considered "approximately the same time." (4- 19-8b, 4-36-2c, 10-1-2) (See 6.4.1 SITUATION A)

TECHNICAL BEFORE QUARTER STARTS
6.4.1 SITUATION A: Twelve minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks the ball and is charged with a technical foul. B1 is discovered to be wearing an illegal jersey, as the players prepare for the start of the game. RULING: The game will be started by awarding Team B two free throws for A1’s technical foul. Team A will then be given two free throws and the ball for a division-line throw-in for B1’s infraction. When the thrower of Team A has the ball for the throw-in, they have control for purposes of establishing the alternating possession procedure and the arrow
is immediately set toward B’s basket. Team B will have the first opportunity for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-3)


=========================
So what is the difference? Why offset the technicals in the first scenario and not award any FTs, but shoot all four in the second play ruling?
The best rationale that we could determine was that in the first situation both infractions were Team technical fouls for something administrative and not charged to any individual (head coach or team member). So the NFHS wants those to offset and the game to begin with a jump ball.
However, in play ruling 6.4.1 the infractions result in technical fouls which are charged to individuals (the team member who dunked and directly to the Head Coach for allowing an illegal uniform), so those technicals do not offset and the FTs are administered in the order in which the fouls occurred and possession is awarded without a jump ball.

[Scrapper1]

Thank you, sir! I knew we'd talked about it, but I couldn't find the references. Are these case plays still in the NFHS Casebook?

[SNIPERBBB]

I know the app sucks but you can get the rules and casebooks for all NFHS sports through the NFHS All Access app.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Thank you, sir! I knew we'd talked about it, but I couldn't find the references. Are these case plays still in the NFHS Casebook?

Yes, both are in the 2023-24 NFHS Case Book.
I hope that you are well and have a great 2024!

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We discussed this in Dec 2016.

3.4.3 SITUATION C: Starter, A1, has brought the wrong uniform and with eight minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, switches with A15 and now is wearing a legal jersey but a new number. With two minutes on the clock prior to the start of the game, it is discovered that starter, B1, is wearing a different jersey than indicated in the scorebook. It is confirmed that a wrong number was provided to the official scorer and a change is made to reflect the correct number in the scorebook. RULING: Both Team A and B are charged with an administrative technical foul for changing a number in the scorebook and will begin the game with one team foul toward the bonus. No free throws are awarded and the game will begin at the point of interruption, which is the opening jump ball. COMMENT: When each team is assessed one technical foul prior to the game, a double technical foul has occurred, as this is considered "approximately the same time." (4- 19-8b, 4-36-2c, 10-1-2) (See 6.4.1 SITUATION A)

TECHNICAL BEFORE QUARTER STARTS
6.4.1 SITUATION A: Twelve minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks the ball and is charged with a technical foul. B1 is discovered to be wearing an illegal jersey, as the players prepare for the start of the game. RULING: The game will be started by awarding Team B two free throws for A1’s technical foul. Team A will then be given two free throws and the ball for a division-line throw-in for B1’s infraction. When the thrower of Team A has the ball for the throw-in, they have control for purposes of establishing the alternating possession procedure and the arrow
is immediately set toward B’s basket. Team B will have the first opportunity for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-3)


=========================
So what is the difference? Why offset the technicals in the first scenario and not award any FTs, but shoot all four in the second play ruling?
The best rationale that we could determine was that in the first situation both infractions were Team technical fouls for something administrative and not charged to any individual (head coach or team member). So the NFHS wants those to offset and the game to begin with a jump ball.
However, in play ruling 6.4.1 the infractions result in technical fouls which are charged to individuals (the team member who dunked and directly to the Head Coach for allowing an illegal uniform), so those technicals do not offset and the FTs are administered in the order in which the fouls occurred and possession is awarded without a jump ball.

We can add this casebook play to the list of pre-game technical fouls that do not offset, as these would also be charged to individual team members just like in 6.4.1 Sit A.

6.4.1 SITUATION F: A team member of Team A is detected dunking about five minutes before the game and a team member of B does the same thing about a minute later.

RULING: The game will start with administration of the technical-foul free throws in the order in which the fouls were called. Team B shoots first followed by Team A. Team A will then be given the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table. When the thrower of Team A is bounced the ball or it is placed at Team A's disposal, the possession arrow will be set pointing toward Team B's basket. (4-3, 7-5-6a)

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

We can add this casebook play to the list of pre-game technical fouls that do not offset, as these would also be charged to individual team members just like in 6.4.1 Sit A.

6.4.1 SITUATION F: A team member of Team A is detected dunking about five minutes before the game and a team member of B does the same thing about a minute later.

RULING: The game will start with administration of the technical-foul free throws in the order in which the fouls were called. Team B shoots first followed by Team A. Team A will then be given the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table. When the thrower of Team A is bounced the ball or it is placed at Team A's disposal, the possession arrow will be set pointing toward Team B's basket. (4-3, 7-5-6a)

Is this right? I was expecting the arrow to be set when Team B received the ball for the FT, meaning Team A gets the ball to start the game AND the arrow. This is more fair, but is not the ruling I was expecting.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How about little help from Nevadaref, the "Interpretation King"?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3.4.3 SITUATION C: COMMENT: When each team is assessed one technical foul prior to the game, a double technical foul has occurred, as this is considered "approximately the same time."

I knew that we could count on Nevadaref. Thank you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3.4.3 SITUATION C: COMMENT: When each TEAM is assessed one technical foul prior to the game, a double technical foul has occurred, as this is considered "approximately the same time." (4- 19-8b, 4-36-2c, 10-1-2) (See 6.4.1 SITUATION A)

The best rationale that we could determine was that in the first situation both infractions were team technical fouls for something administrative and not charged to any individual ...

Agree, it's right there in the casebook play.